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Char & Tom's Room Upstairs's avatar

Ezekiel 28 sheds light on what happened in between Genesis 1:1 and verse 2...

Yeshua did not create the earth/universe in the wasteland condition as we see in verse 2...[Isaiah 45:18...]

The earth became "haya"...

This is not how yeshua creates "GOOD..."

Psalm 104:30

David wrote: you sent forth your spirit and made new the face of the earth

Gen 1:2

The Holy Spirit moved upon the waters and divided the firmament..

Notice, Yeshua did not call the firmament "good"

Why?

Ezekiel 28: 14-24

I believe this high ranking CREATED once glorious angel "lucifer".was on the earth for a LONG time but became corrupt because of his position of control, his perfect beauty and abilities..

He became the father of evil...His name is now evil....

Isaiah 14: 12-17

Yeshua destroyed the essence and the spiritual body of this angel ..He no longer has a name but a title ""liar"..

He was brought down to "hell"..

He made the world a wilderness..etc.

Yeshua had a plan of redemption from the very beginning and He laid bare all of it within the early writings...

The earth's an old earth and its is right there in the very first chapters of Genisis if one is curious enough to search it out ..

" the snake in the garden" always bothered me until I was shown more of the puzzle pieces and background...

It's all there jyst waiting for us to uncover it...

Blessings

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Char & Tom's Room Upstairs's avatar

My apologies for the typo errors...I will never get used to one finger typing inside these tiny little squares on my phone...Uhg!

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Char & Tom's Room Upstairs's avatar

SERGIO ...Great article!!...Thinking about your words I'm struck by the fact that many believers will tell you "they're" all about truth but rarely do they allow themselves to be challenged. At one point Yehova winked at ignorance but today, there is NO EXCUSE FOR IGNORANCE" for anyone!..When our longing becomes wanting to know Him...He will fulfill the desire of our heart...For me He told me to begin at the beginning...THE TORAH...Sergio, if I have learned anything it's this...🌹My ABBA FATHER loves me and wants me and each of us to experience Him as ABBA, Healer, Provider etc. but Yeshua is Holy God, He is not just a title He is the Name above all Names..The daughters of Constaninian's Church has cleverly created a VERY diminished Jesus BUT. .THE RIDE IS BEGINNING TO CHANGE! BLESSINGS, BROTHER SERGIO ..

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Sergio DeSoto's avatar

Amen! You absolutely hit the nail on the head! With all the resources at our fingertips today, there’s no room for excuses anymore—pastors especially need to rise up, ditch the gimmicks, and boldly proclaim the unfiltered truth. It’s time to show the world who ABBA really is, not some watered-down version! Your comments light a fire under me—they keep me pressing forward, and I can’t tell you how much I love that! Keep it coming, —you’re a blessing!

Todah rabah! (thank you very much)

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Steve S's avatar

If you explained why evil is present, I missed it. Can you explain why God put the serpent in the Garden?

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Sergio DeSoto's avatar

The post touches on this in the ‘Foundation’ section, where their choice distorts God’s good creation, letting evil take root.

As for why God put the serpent in the Garden—that’s a sharp question, and I’ll admit it’s a mystery that Scripture doesn’t fully unpack. The text briefly notes that evil’s presence predates humanity, hinting at a rebellion beyond Eden, with the serpent as its agent (Genesis 3:1 calls it ‘crafty,’ suggesting prior intent). Some Jewish and Christian traditions point to a fallen angelic being—like Satan in later texts (e.g., Revelation 12:9)—but Genesis doesn’t say God ‘put’ it there so much as it was present in a world still under His sovereignty. Why allow it? That dives into the deep end of theodicy: if freedom is real, perhaps even creation’s order faced a test, though we’re not given the full ‘why’—only that God’s plan bends it toward redemption through Yeshua (Genesis 3:15).

I’d love to hear your thoughts—does that clarify, or does it raise more questions? This stuff’s worth wrestling with together!

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Steve S's avatar

Hello again. Understanding why evil is present and why it is actually part of God’s creation plan hinges on truly understanding who Jesus is.

Let’s review what I hope are mutually agreed facts.

1-God will not allow sin to be part of the Kingdom. Simply it will not be present within humanity.

2-Humans will not sin for two reasons. They will choose not to, because they are filled with God’s seed. At present we have a deposit of spirit only and this is merely an influence within us, just as the devil has an external influence around us. Until God places His spirit as a gift, usually at baptism, we are completely influenced by the devil.

Of course there may be some goodness going on, this is of God, but not in a conscious way as we are not yet called by God and are not yet participating in a conscious two-way spirit relationship.

1John 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

19We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

This is another area of confusion regarding born again or ‘born from above’ as Jesus put it.

There is a whole post on this matter. Simply, we are not born until Jesus returns. Which makes sense of v18, most commenters on this have to fudge scripture to try and make sense of’ he will not sin’. No one except Jesus is without sin, so to stop sinning is impossible until our transformation into the same life Jesus now has.

Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 1John 3:9

You will be familiar with several references to Jesus as the firstborn - of the dead, of creation, of many brothers.

All refer to his resurrection and his change to new spiritual life 1Pet 3:18, Rom 6:9. Not his Mary birth.

We follow his route to eternal life in the same manner. Jesus, while on earth in flesh and blood, could sin, he could die. If he sinned he would not be raised.

Note he cannot die again (Rom 6:9), just as he cannot sin anymore - God is baked in! As He will be for the saints.

Death is tied to sin. They must go together. Take away one, the other goes too.

Once born again, born of God, we will no longer have a human nature, but a godly nature.

John 3:6 That having been born of the flesh is flesh, and that having been born of the Spirit is spirit.

Notice this is not about having a deposit of spirit only - we will BE spirit. We are not spirit now (yet) obviously.

Jesus had his own will which differed, opposed God’s will. He never sinned, so whenever he wanted to do something his way, he relented and submitted to his God and obeyed as directed. The main point is that Jesus had to choose to obey, choose to submit, choose to trust God’s purpose, love and wisdom.

Just as Adam had to choose to obey. Adam was a type of Jesus, Jesus is the last Adam - Adam means human.

God is designing holiness. Not by fiat, or imposition or manipulation, but by love, trust and obedience. By choice.

How can one choose good if there is no evil? God put two trees in the Garden. Just as he put two Gods. One holy, one not.

He offered a chance to choose either - yes he directed them to choose wisely and explained the consequences.

If He didn’t have the devil to tempt, it would be too easy to make a choice based on suggestion or direction as if almost ordered or coerced to do the right thing.

But also He wanted man to experience sin and the horror of it all, the futility of self-centred living. Once one sees with perfect clarity, the choice should be obvious between good and evil.

God put before Israel the choice in physical terms, do right by Me and you will be blessed. Do wrong and suffer the consequences.

The problem is that once the devil initiated the ‘fall’, man’s connection with God is damaged and a deception has remained on mankind until God calls them back.

In this state, true free will is lost, damaged, disfunctional. We are unable to choose fairly, justly because we only understand the way of evil. It is our natural way. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees by saying you are of your father the devil because you do the things of the devil instead of the things of God.

Until God releases us from deception we cannot choose Him. It’s impossible. We might think we are choosing God or Buddha or Allah, it doesn’t matter, He must choose us first to clear up the mess evil has inflicted. To remove our affinity for following the devil - to remove our state of deception.

Then, we get our free will back. After Jesus returns, the devil is removed so he cannot deceive anyone anymore. Rev 20:2. This refers to the remnant of humanity still alive and not counted in Christ. Obviously, still mortal and still sinners.

Now they get their free will back and are able to be saved by living a repentant life as we have done. There is no difference to the salvation process, just the time of calling. The kings and priests of Jesus will guide and teach them about living holy, repentant lives.

Without evil present, there is no experience of living apart from God. If they gain eternal life without that experience, there is nothing to stop them from sinning some time in the future. They have not committed to a choice where both ways were experienced and they have picked one. They can still choose to reject God, if they commit to that choice, they will end up dead permanently in the second death.

Conclusion: God chose not to create perfect people made in His image by simply making them holy and hoping they stay that way. It seems He did that with the angels and lost a third to evil.

So He is training us to choose right and good and then baking that choice in with full spirit life. Without the devil’s assistance, that would be impossible so to speak, so God used him to prove how useless, hopeless and pointless the way of sin is.

Now we get to see why, if Jesus was God, the whole temptation thing, the whole choosing thing, the battle with self-will would be totally pointless and fraudulent.

God would have cheated by sending essentially Himself in the form of the alleged God the Son, who could not fail which would have proved nothing.

As if Satan could tempt God - no matter how theology tries to fluff about with dual-natures nonsense, God cannot be tempted, and does not need to overcome anything - it is impossible to overcome that which presents no threat or challenge.

Jesus won a victory by trust, love, obedience - not by being God. He won the victory for his brothers and sisters by being one of us. A God/man is nothing like us. Heb 2:17.

He won a fair fight simply because he could lose, with God provisions, he didn’t. Just as for us, with God’s provision we will also win because we win in Jesus’ victory.

Hope that helps lay out the reason God uses evil for holy purposes.

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David Bergsland's avatar

Good bit of writing... Where I always end up when considering these questions is the marvelous key to "the Training Place of Mankind" [the name I give to the post-flood Earth].

Father wanted people outside Himself who would choose to love Him by their own free will. So He designed a world which cannot be figured out—it must be accepted by faith.

He needed a bad guy—Lucifer volunteered. He needed a people who had been separated from Himself—sin was required and Adam and Eve volunteered there also. He even needed occult evil and false gods—the fallen angels volunteered to produce all of that.

Then He had a just reason for the Flood, which radically remodeled Earth and produced a Training Place of incredible complexity. A person can only graduate from this training successfully by accepting the fact that Almighty God is Love, good and always trustworthy, and by obediently accepting that Yeshua is indeed the Messiah. That all results in a people who are united by the fact that we all chose to love Almighty God of our own free will, by faith.

The wonderful mind and creative character of God makes me laugh with joy. Plus, we all get to spend eternity with our Messiah. Yeehaw!

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