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Mitchell Collins's avatar

Wow, what you said about the thief on the cross deserves its own article. I have never heard it taught that way before.

Sergio DeSoto's avatar

The little diamonds 💎😊

David Bergsland's avatar

You have described some of what went on with my baptism. I gave myself to Jesus and accepted my death. My infant baptism was of unclear worth. So I was immersed about ten years after I was born from above, filled with, and empowered by the Spirit. It was a religious event that enabled me to teach and minister in evangelical and pentecostal churches.

It was a visible statement about the death of my old man which I had already accepted by faith. I think what I am saying is that we all have a uniquely personal path through to our final salvation and the receipt of our glorified body.

God said to us personally to get immersed, so that's what my wife and I did—a decade or more after we were transformed by our relationship with Yeshua Messiah. Our faith said that if Jesus did it, we needed to as well.

As always, the institution is a problem. Jesus works with organisms, not organizations.

Desert Sage's avatar

Many discussions have been made about this era, most asking the questions of What, Where, When, How? but seldom ask Why?

If the early Way could not be stopped by persecution—even after leaders were executed and believers scattered—why did the Roman Empire abandon suppression and instead choose to absorb it?

Empires don’t adopt movements because they’re persuaded. They do so when suppression fails.

The Roman world was not spiritually neutral. Allegiance to unseen powers shaped how authority and control were exercised. When the Empire joined with the Way, it didn’t destroy it; it rendered it safe-neutered. The seed that produced inward transformation and Spirit-led obedience was removed, leaving form in its place.

What survived was recognizable, even durable—but no longer dangerous. That loss still helps explain why belief remains widespread today, while authority and influence are often absent.

林 Vanya Evangeline's avatar

Brilliant write as always, Sergio.

I really like what you wrote about the Council of Nicaea, and I think the subject warrants an article on its own. There seems to be a lot of misunderstandings about the purpose of the council and what went on there that lends itself to many conspiracy theories, and I myself have questions regarding the necessity of standardizing faith into formal doctrinal statements. There is a tension between doctrinal overreach vs. theological free-for-all, and I think you're really great at articulating balance into such conflict. I personally find that the "orthodoxy vs. heresy" debates can get pedantic with definition and terms; on the other hand, I wonder if there are certain kinds of error (e.g. denying the deity of Christ, or professing absurd claims about who God is and what He's like) that could disqualify one from the faith and the salvation that it offers.

With baptism itself, it does seem (at least in some circles) that the ritual serve as a membership officiation into the church or denomination rather than swearing allegiance to Christ - and if you were baptized in one church/denomination and later attend a different one, the latter might require you to go through a process similar to baptism even if they don't call it that.

Sergio DeSoto's avatar

I'm definitely going to add that to my topics to cover list. I look at it as a very real collaborative effort to control the outsiders.

Human nature at its finest.

Thank you for taking the time to read and comment!!

Cathy Colver Garland's avatar

Excellent. Saving forever.

OnceProdigal's avatar

Good article. I was born into a Catholic family, so naturally I was baptized as an infant. I left catholicism in my early 30s and for years assumed my earlier baptism was sufficient. Of course, that was before I understood its real meaning, which you've articulated far better than my own thoughts on the subject.

I like the section on the Post-Nicaean Cascade. I'd love to hear your thoughts some time on original sin (which I consider an incorrect doctrine) and how it fueled some errant practices that still persist.

Sergio DeSoto's avatar

Take a look at this, and let me know if it gives any clarity. If not, always happy to discuss.

https://www.sergiodesoto.com/p/the-dual-nature-of-humanity-unpacking?utm_source=publication-search

OnceProdigal's avatar

My initial comment was along the lines of how original sin became church doctrine and later served as the foundation of Calvin's total depravity, arguably the most important of his five points. Your article went in a different direction, though, and I'm glad it did. Your overall take on total depravity is right on the mark. How it intertwines with mental illness, however, is something to which I've given little thought. I've often mulled over its implications in those who are of limited mental capacity, but not those diagnosed with a mental illness. You've given me something to noodle on, and for that I thank you. And God, who never ceases to amaze when he brings believers together, even if it's online.

Something tells me this conversation isn't over. Thanks again for unlocking the article.

Sergio DeSoto's avatar

My intention was to always have them unlocked. So let me know if there's anything else you want me to change. The auto-pay wall so it can be a little bit of a challenge. I appreciate you!

OnceProdigal's avatar

Looks interesting. I need to upgrade and read the rest, but many thanks for the link.

OnceProdigal's avatar

Many thanks.

Sergio DeSoto's avatar

I’ll unlock it!

Victoria Cardona's avatar

Baptism isn’t just a human declaration that follows an interior decision, and it also isn’t a mechanical ritual that bypasses the heart. The problem shows up when Baptism gets reduced to only one of those. Baptism actually does something because God acts through it, not because the water itself has power and not because the institution wants leverage. That’s why the New Testament speaks so boldly about it without treating repentance as optional. New birth language, dying and rising language, putting on Christ language all go beyond enlistment metaphors. God isn’t waiting on a visible sign to finally accept someone, but He has chosen to bind grace to material signs because the Incarnation itself works that way. God saves through flesh, time, and matter.

The Church has never claimed God is bound by the sacraments, only that we are. Extraordinary situations don’t redefine the ordinary means Christ gave. The thief receives mercy apart from baptism because baptism is impossible for him, not because baptism is optional in principle. That distinction matters.

I do agree with you on one really important point though. Baptism without conversion is dangerous. A baptized life that resists repentance is not safe, it’s exposed. Where I’d push back is saying baptism merely records repentance. Scripture and tradition hold that baptism both presupposes repentance and communicates grace that strengthens the person to live it out. Accountability flows from gift, not just the person's decision to get baptized.

If baptism becomes reassurance without obedience, something has gone wrong. But if it becomes only a human pledge, we lose the scandal that God actually acts first. Holding both together is harder, but it’s closer to how the faith has always understood this mystery.

Sergio DeSoto's avatar

I agree baptism isn’t a heart-bypassing mechanism, and I agree the NT speaks about it with real weight. 100%

Where I push back is the move from “God acts through baptism” to “grace is bound to the rite” in a way that shifts the causal center. Biblically, God’s saving action is consistently tied to repentance, faith, and the Spirit, while baptism is the covenantal threshold where that turning is publicly enacted and the person is bound to it.

The thief matters because his case reveals the order: his repentance and allegiance are already fully present on the cross, and Yeshua grants mercy without ritual. That’s not making baptism optional; it’s showing baptism isn’t the hinge of acceptance.

So yes, baptism without conversion is dangerous. But I’m saying baptism seals and binds publicly what God has already begun in a genuinely repentant heart; it doesn’t replace that heart-turning or become the channel that finally makes grace “arrive.”

Victoria Cardona's avatar

Thank you for sharing your perspective; I appreciate the careful thought you’ve put into this. From a Catholic standpoint, we do affirm that baptism is not a heart-bypassing ritual—genuine repentance and faith are necessary. At the same time, the Church teaches that baptism is the ordinary means by which God imparts sanctifying grace. It doesn’t replace conversion, but it does effect what it signifies: cleansing from sin, incorporation into Christ, and participation in the life of the Spirit.

Your example of the thief on the cross is a helpful reminder that God is not limited by the sacraments. Catholics would see that as an extraordinary instance of God’s mercy, not as diminishing the ordinary necessity of baptism. So while we may frame things differently, your emphasis on the primacy of the heart-turning resonates and is a perspective worth considering!!

Crispin's avatar

“the Church teaches that baptism is the ordinary means by which God imparts sanctifying grace.” How can one possibly limit God in such a way? I’m not trying to be anti-Catholic. I just don’t understand “ordinary means”. I find nothing that constrains His Grace nor that it is very by ordinary means.

Victoria Cardona's avatar

No worries I totally get why that may have thrown you off a bit! Many non-Catholic traditions emphasize God’s absolute freedom but lack the Catholic distinction between God’s freedom, and the means He freely chose to bind us to. What I stated was official Catholic teaching — Catholics don’t believe grace is limited to sacraments. We believe sacraments are the normal way God told us to receive it, while His mercy remains free. I hope that sorta helped you out

Sergio DeSoto's avatar

Interesting to me. Can you explain the sacraments and how they work to me? Where they come from? Genuine question.

Victoria Cardona's avatar

Happy to explain. In Catholic teaching, the sacraments come from Christ Himself, not later Church invention. The Church teaches that “the sacraments are instituted by Christ and entrusted to the Church” (CCC 1114; Council of Trent, Session VII).

They are not just symbols. “The sacraments are efficacious signs of grace… by which divine life is dispensed to us” (CCC 1131), and they confer grace because of Christ’s action, not human effort (CCC 1127; Council of Trent, Session VII, Canon 6). At the same time, Catholic doctrine is explicit that God is not limited by them. “God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but He Himself is not bound by His sacraments” (CCC 1257). St Thomas Aquinas says the same thing: God is the principal cause of grace, and the sacraments are instruments He freely chose to use, not limits on His power (Summa Theologiae III, q.62, a.1; q.64, a.7).

So when Catholics say Baptism is the ordinary means of sanctifying grace, we mean the normal way God told us to receive it, while fully affirming that His mercy and freedom are never constrained (CCC 1257).

Crispin's avatar

“”The Church” has never claimed God is bound by the sacraments, only that we are.” On what grounds did the Church decide this?

Victoria Cardona's avatar

Hi! I’m speaking purely from the Catholic perspective although I know the opinions on here are not of that, so I’m simply sharing my extended thoughts! Well for starters here is one from Aquinas, whom the Catholic Church has fully approved and embraced the teachings of: God has bound salvation to the sacraments, but He Himself is not bound by them

(ST III, q. 64, a. 7)… PLUS our Council of Trent repeatedly emphasizes the sacraments as the ordinary means instituted by Christ, not as absolute constraints on divine action. Of course, nothing is impossible or limited when it comes to Gods power.

HEPHZIBAH יהוה ישוע Ἰησοῦς's avatar

I honestly thought all those in Christ, and taught in by & through Christ know this and that it's so obvious?? It doesn't even need to be explained?? If you have truly repented been reading the bible and studying it in-depthly prayerfully and with God's holy spirit then you know about the mikveh, we see it in His-story, and those who as yet don't really need to do an in-depth study on these most wonderful fantastic treasures with heavenly father and His holy spirit, as they enrich our relationship and understanding with Him and of Him! And who wouldn't want that?

You see all the patterns, all the shadows are pointing to the very realities and in and through Jesus Christ establishing His new covenant with us in his blood by his atoning sacrifice, & through receiving holy spirit rebirth you receive Christ in you & the mind the very person of Christ Jesus the very heart of our father in heaven & is our ever present daily reality, as is the illumination and revelation of these things and the deep mysteries of heavenly father and all His truths and there are so many layers, and of course those who search into the deep things of Him as hidden treasures like mining for Gold will indeed find & that all the treasures and riches are found in Jesus in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things, and yet we can never plumb the depths of Him as we would indeed need an eternity!

I remember at my baptism explaining what my immersion truly meant, and that before repentance all must repent then be baptised as we see the pattern in all the ones whom came before us & in the scriptures, and indeed Jesus himself to fulfil all rightouesness, that the churches must not accept all and sundry to undergo baptism, but that they to understand what repentance truly is and means, and what the public declaration of the depths of the meaning of baptism truly actually is & in front of witnesses actually means, and that is the demonstration of what Heavenly Father in Christ Jesus has done inwardly and outwardly in our lives cleansing and purifying and in having been crucified with Christ and buried with him into his baptism of death dying to our old, our old self, our old life before Jesus revealed and then manifest himself to us all our old nature and old way of life of stubborn prideful sinful rebellion is put to death, death to self life, also having been delivered from satan and his entire kingdom of darkness and being crucified to the world and it to us- hence going under the water, is also a symbol of that death, and of cleansing there is so much to go into here as well, and could go into the flood of Noah's day and of course all those who were baptised under the cloud in the wilderness in the days of Moses, & then coming up out of the water is the symbol and the truth of the demonstration of having received holy spirit baptism and anointing & entered into the power of Jesus Christ's indwelling and resurrection life of the newness of spirit life & now walking according to the spirit, no longer fulfilling the lusts of the desires of our flesh. And the fact we are saying to heavenly father and everyone else I am dedicating consecrating and giving my entire life whole being in the pursuit of putting God first His righteousness and His kingdom and in making Jesus as the way my entire way of life in denying self and picking up my cross daily, dying daily & to this world, to satan to the temptations to sin, to no longer be conformed or fashioned to it's ways but being conformed transformed by the renewing of the mind.

I always thought every one whom is truly in Christ Jesus knew this and were given this understanding though? And guess what no human not chrustian told me these things, Jesus did though he explained it all to me. The fact I had been reading the bible since a child and was given some things and understanding but it was only when I was drawn & called and Jesus revealed and manifest himself to me and gave me holy spirit rebirth and baptism in God's holy spirit and then Christ indwelt and infilled me as the hope of glory that all what I had been reading for so many years then suddenly I understood it via the spirit into my now spirit and soul and then body and that was a tremendous gift of God's grace too.

Our admission in to the kingdom is of incalculable worth—and it is Jesus Christ whom grants the admission. The unsearchable riches of Christ are on display in our responsive love through obedience in our complete surrender & absolute subjection in making him all in all, having been born after his seed and dying as the seed into the ground to then bring forth Jesus' life be good fruit bearing and bring forth an abundance of fruits befitting our repentance. Having received a new nature new circumcised hearts desires we are the offspring of Jesus whom was the first fruit and we are recreated after him, after his seed as and after His own kind. The riches of beloved Christ include all that God our abba is. The unsearchable riches of Christ are indeed the Glory of God, the Truth of God, the Wisdom of God, the Life of God, and the Love of God. In Christ, God “has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing" In Christ, God “has given us everything we need for a godly life” (2 Peter 1:3).

We take the lowliest & the most humblest position as a servant and slave not only to Jesus' & heavenly father's headship but to our brothers and sisters, especially counting ourselves as nothing understanding fully that without abiding in Him we can do nothing, yet all we are empowered to do is in always exalting & magnifying the living Christ Jesus and our father in heaven! The very holy intimacy we have been given bestowed upon us and truly received is Himself into our holy of holies our holy-our soul and inner courtyard- to our body as His very sanctuary the very dwelling place of God in man in us in our temple and this again is the shadow and full ess of the meaning of the tavernalce in the wilderness that we are! And as the very beloved Jesus & our most magnificent father in heaven is the very gift whom keeps giving is self perpetuating and ever increasing as we keep decreasing in to us within us and amongst us.

Having been thoroughly transformed as new creations now walking in and according to the spirit. The treasures of Christ, in the living one true God are inexhaustible, they are unsearchable, and they are eternal and far more valuablea nd surpasses any earthly treasures or riches & actually they are accounted all as rubbish and dung to the incomparable riches found in Christ and in having a restored reconciled continuing all pervasive ongoing holy intimate relationship with father in heaven.