Always connected the institution of the new covenant established in Christ's blood wit the Passover because Jesus himself said to his disciples "How I have longed to eat this Passover with you." The life is in the blood Leviticus 17:11 so when Jesus says to drink his blood is obviously metaphorically as blood is sacred and must not be infested into the human body Acts 15:29, he was saying if we are eating and drinking him consuming him, abiding in him, whom he is,his character, nature image likeness and faith, we then have his very life coursing in and through us. By the Lord, the spirit. whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. 1 John 2:6
Even worldly people understand these concepts when they say inane things like I eat drink sleep TV. How is it then, those who say they belong to the living Christ Jesus cannot? Everything is a seamless red thread a tapestry woven beautifully together like the high priests seamless tunic that Jesus also wore and was cast lots over by the Roman soldiers, se another wonderful hidden treasure as Jesus is the true ad final high priest after the order of Melchizedek, from the beginning to the end the Alpha and the omega you will not find or grasp the wonderful hidden treasures revealed in the living Christ Jesus if you don't spend the time in knowing all the types and shadows revealed before from Genesis to Malachi. Yet truly these things are only illuminated and revealed when you spend time in holy intimacy with heavenly father, sitting at Jesus' feet and God's very own holy spirit whom by is grace will reveal these exquisite eternal priceless treasures that are far more valuable than inanimate money or objects! These are the many wonderful gifts and presents from our loving heavenly father and from Himself whom: Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. James 1:17
Ingested not infested though can indeed cause blood borne infectious diseases like cytomegalovirus, Aids, nanobot technology will obviously get passed through any blood transfusions unless you know exactly where you and whom you are receiving if you do choose to even receive blood.
this presents a very different approach to the topic of Passover, and one i’ve never approached or even had to approach.
i've never had any Biblical discussions with fellow believers who bring up transubstantiation. admittedly, i rarely have Biblical discussions with Catholics, but even my few Catholic friends never speak of it. i have largely thought that believers would never take the “eating My body & blood” metaphor literally, as with scriptures which suggest “plucking out one’s eye”, etc.
it is mind blowing to me that this topic even comes up. now i have to wonder… what percentage of Catholics (and/or Protestants?) actually believe the symbolic bread & wine that Jesus instituted as an event just prior to His crucifixion — which i view to be the New Covenant Passover — physically turns from literal “bread & wine” into the actual body & blood of Jesus? …30%? …70%? certainly not 100%! 😳
i’ve certainly heard about “communion” as practiced by perhaps the overwhelming majority of mainstream Christian church denominations. my understanding of it is that these church organizations include communion into their services based upon what many refer to as the “Lord’s Last Supper”. i also understand their reasoning for a weekly or monthly frequency is most likely due to their interpretation that Jesus suggested His followers should do it as often as they desire.
however, as i search again for these memorable words of Jesus, i don’t find them in the gospel accounts. Matthew 26 & Mark 14 record Jesus as saying, “eat/drink this bread/wine which is My body/blood in the New Covenant”, and then Luke 22 adds “do this in remembrance of Me”.
unless i missed it, there doesn’t appear to be any example within the gospels of Jesus suggesting whatsoever anything explicit about the frequency this eating of symbolic bread & wine should take place.
it’s not until later in 1Corinthians 11:25-26 where Paul makes this mention of Christ saying, ““This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”, then Paul goes on to say, “For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.”
so the question one might have remains: how often is “as often as” supposed to be in frequency cycle for this event?
the Sabbatarian church culture i have been in for ~30 years (and still trying to “come out of her” to some extent) embraces the following logic, as do i:
Q: when did Christ institute this “new” observance?
A: at Passover.
Q: did Christ give any indication that this “new” observance should be done at any time other than when He instituted it?
A: No.
Q: what does Paul explicitly state is being done whenever this event occurs?
A: by doing so we proclaim Jesus’ death (sacrifice) until He returns.
Q: what is the paramount substance of the New Covenant?
A: the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, Yahshua Messiah.
therefore, we understand that this proclamation of Jesus’ death & resurrection and the New Covenant to occur at the time of the Passover observance.
i do not share this to criticize in any way those who interpret the scriptures to mean that we should do “communion” at any time we desire.
i merely believe that because the mainstream church denominations have embraced the Roman Catholic Church’s changing of God’s Biblically commanded annual appointed times, believers have been removed to a large degree from understanding the intrinsic nature of how they have always prophetically pointed to Christ — specifically in this case, Passover: the first annual holy event on God’s sacred yearly calendar.
now, i personally refer to this event which occurs at various frequencies in various church denominations not as “communion” — and this is where my perspective differs from some others among my longstanding church culture — but the New Covenant Passover.
there are so many Passover studies that exist, and many might be considered painfully lengthy. my lengthy study on the subject, “Passover - From Old to New Covenant” is in three parts: Physical Exodus, Spiritual Exodus, and Crucifixion to Resurrection, and even an Intro to boot!
if anyone is interested in digging into this — hopefully not painfully long — study of mine, they can be found in the Appointed Times section at the bottom of my Articles page:
yes, Passover observers can be extra… “particular” (might be the kindest word to use). sadly, many such have exemplified expressing literal condemnation against fellow observers who “don’t do it right” according to one’s own understanding. and believe it or not, most of such contention is over issues of timing: not coarse timing matters, like yearly, monthly, or weekly observance, but rather over what time of day or night during the 14th of God’s first month of His sacred year!
however, if anyone might find interest in reading a much shorter study which focuses primarily upon how one comes to understand “communion” and the “Last Supper” as being our New Covenant Passover in Christ, i suggest checking out my “Passover Simplified” study, also in the Appointed Times section of my website. here’s the direct link:
thank you again Sergio for sharing yet another fantastic & short study on this matter of transubstantiation… and the Biblical understanding of covenant.
You’ve said some genuinely sharp things here that I needed to write down. One in particular hit hard: why would this be implemented before the covenant transaction is even complete? That’s a big question, and it matters more than we might realize!
On the second point—within Jewish life, Passover is already a beautiful meal. But when you’re Messianic, it comes alive in a way that’s hard to put into words. It’s not just meaningful; it’s felt. The afikoman, the search for the buried bread, the symbols, the story—it all becomes this glorious, weighty, heartfelt event. It’s honestly stunning.
But frequency-wise, I don’t think the point is ritual for ritual’s sake. The heart of it is when believers break bread together, talk, share life, and actually build community. That’s where remembrance happens—because you’re remembering Him, not performing a routine.
And that’s the key: it’s a heart issue, not an elements issue. If the elements become the focal point, they can turn into a distraction—just like elevating a pastor can become a distraction. The power isn’t in obsessing over the mechanics; it’s in the meaning.
Breaking bread is fellowship. It’s shared life. It’s covenant family. And that’s what He’s calling us into.
And seriously—thank you for taking the time to write such a long, thoughtful comment. I can tell you didn’t "phone" it in, and I really appreciate it!
“sharp” with regard to “fine points being made”? just checking that “sharp” isn't meaning that i may have been somehow offensively painful in making my points. ;-) but please, help me understand wherever i may be potentially offensive, as i’m striving to avoid doing so.
this hard hit that apparently causes you to ask a question i don’t think i have considered before, “why would this be implemented before the covenant transaction is even complete?”
my initial thought here is that because i generally have a different perspective of what is overwhelmingly understood as “communion” by the majority of the Christian mainstream, i’m not viewing this as entirely “new” event, but rather the fulfillment of a very old event: the Old Covenant Passover.
i go into this in my Passover Simplified study, which is only 22 pages long at 14 point font, so someone as scholarly as you could entirely read it while having morning coffee. ;-)
but just to share my perspective in few words, i believe the OT “YHWH” is Jesus Christ, Yahshua Messiah who manifested Himself during ancient times in various ways, and that His commands, including weekly Sabbaths & annual appointed times are eternal… as He is.
therefore, knowing that the physical temple would be destroyed, He provided a method for His people for continuing the true observance of Passover without there any longer being a Biblically sanctified method of doing so which mandates there being a sanctified physical temple, using physical sacrificial lambs.
thus, i believe He had this plan, that the Old Covenant physical method for Passover would be updated as a New Covenant spiritual method for Passover. the observance of Passover was implemented from the onset, and now it’s merely been updated in like manner as the Old Covenant was updated by the New Covenant.
this is the rationale for why our local congregation holds two special services for Passover: one annually memorializes the Old Covenant Exodus Passover physically removing His children Israel from the sin of Egypt, and one annually memorializes the New Covenant Passover in Christ, which spiritually removes His children Israel from our carnal sins eternally.
i believe the Exodus OC Passover was metaphorically prophetic regarding Messiah’s future sacrifice, while Messiah’s NC Passover is that fulfillment and the only way by which everyone’s sins could truly be atoned.
thus, i also believe that while the symbology never changed, only the symbols themselves changed — under the OC the physical lamb & its blood represented the body & blood of Messiah, while under the NC our Spiritual Lamb is now represented by the bread & the wine.
“Fellowship of the Word holds two special services during our Lord's Biblically appointed time for the Passover.
The first is the New Covenant Passover, which is a memorial of Jesus Christ's sacrifice as our Messiah and Passover Lamb, including His institution of the New Covenant symbols for His body & blood (unleavened bread & wine). Also as exemplified with His apostles during the evening He was betrayed, we observe foot washing during this service as well (bring a basin and towel). We ask that everyone arrive ~30 minutes ahead of time for personal meditation.
The second is the Old Covenant Passover, which is a memorial celebration of ancient Israel's Exodus from their lengthy Egyptian slavery, which includes fellowship and a congregational meal (not a Seder). An RSVP is requested to make appropriate accommodations for the meal. This is also referred to by some as the “Night Much to be Observed” (literally: “night watch vigil”).
Being children of God in His New Covenant, we understand that the new symbols of our Messiah’s body & blood (unleavened bread & wine) were given as an update to the Old Covenant symbols for His body & blood (the yearly metaphorically sacrificed Passover lambs). Our understanding is that Jesus Christ, Yahshua Messiah, is our Passover Lamb whose shed blood and slain body washes away the sin of the world, which all prior Passover lamb sacrifices symbolically represented.”
so then on one hand i view the NC Passover institution as merely an update of sorts to the OC Passover, thus being implemented long before the entire fulfillment was completed — which i view to be both the crucifixion and resurrection of Yahshua.
on the other hand, the practical rationale for Christ instituting the NC Passover symbols is due to His knowing that the physical temple would be destroyed creating a necessity for this update, and that He would be put to physical death in the same very day upon which the Passover was originally commanded to occur.
i’m not certain all this fully answers your question, but it’s what came to mind when i read it, along with your thoughts about Passover within the Jewish life.
i agree that none of this is “ritual for ritual’s sake”, anymore than observing God’s appointed times are such, as they all are all about Jesus/Yahshua and God’s 7000 year plan for humankind’s redemption.
it’s all about being a “heart issue”, because as i understand it, the New Covenant is paramountly about God writing His laws upon our newly forming hearts (as new creatures in Him).
while i certainly understand the common perspective of our breaking bread with one another is to be considered as fellowship with one another in the New Covenant we have with Christ, i also understand that the NC Passover is a special commanded time of annual confirmation where we metaphorically “eat” Christ’s body & blood, as all believers have done since the Exodus Passover just in an updated method.
such is why we continue to eat unleavened bread for the following 7 days while dispensing with leavened bread, which symbolizes putting Christ into our lives while removing sin from our lives.
Christ instituted these new Passover symbols at Passover. i haven’t yet found any scripture which suggests in the least that these symbols can be separated from Passover.
and seriously, you are so very welcome for “sacrificing” ;-) a little bit of my time to share my thoughts, after you have put so much effort into all the writing that you do!
i wish we were physically closer, as i’d love to have you come speak sometime at our congregation. i’m certain you would be most appreciated! if you ever get near Western North Carolina, please let me know! 8-)
you are very welcome! 8-) i was never in Worldwide COG, but i came along into observing God's appointed times just after its major split. my favorite two teachers who created their own independent ministries were Ronald Dart (of Christian Educational Ministries, which became Born To Win - still active website), and Ray Wooten (of United Christian Ministries).
over the years i attended for short stints with the larger organization which came out of Worldwide, like CGI (Church of God International) & UCG (United Church of God). however, there were some specific doctrines i simply couldn't agree with that were deal breakers for me: paramountly, the prohibition of women using their spiritual gifts during church services (holy convocation) AND the prohibition of children being *fully* involved in Passover observance. there are other administrative issues regarding the perceived “authority” of elders which i'm only looking more deeply into now, but somehow sensed i didn't agree with the norm in those organizations.
i doin't want to only share the things i didn’t like about those organizations, as my all time favorite doctrine from any Christian church came from those groups (i believe even within WWG), which is what many of us refer to as the “Fair Chance” doctrine — which teaches that repentance is not prohibited during the second resurrection. i’m still not certain i’ve heard this doctrine from any other Christian faith to this date. oddly enough, i’ve found that many believers have a very difficult time with this concept, and this has surprised me over time. we read so many passages about the [near] infinite mercy of God, yet so many seem to forget that when presented with this concept.
regardless, my view is that there are going to be a LOT of very pleasantly surprised Christians in both resurrections. ;-)
regarding Pentecost being a spring or summer observance, i presume you are referring to the Appointed Times chart on our local congregation’s Appointed Times webpage. i originally got that chart idea from 119 Ministries (a Sabbatarian group with whom i seem to doctrinally agree with most of the time). it’s very similar to theirs, but i updated a few things on it.
because most people refer to summer as not starting until the summer solstice, many Sabbatarians classify Pentecost along with the other spring appointed times, or holy days. ironically, for years now i’ve been considering viewing all that a bit differently than the norm. because to me, it seems more logical to place a solstice at the middle of the summer/winter season rather than the beginning of it, seeing as the solstice marks the extreme length/shortness of day/night. however, this is merely a personal observation, thus i generally conform to the seasonal norms which society has “ordained”. ;-)
not regarding the matter of spring vs. summer classification, if you are interested in digging into Pentecost, i recently made a substantial update to my study i used to call “Counting of Pentecost”, now called “Day of Firstfruits” which you can find in the Appointed Times section of my SeedsOfTruth website. in this updated study i try to provide scriptural evidence as to which way seems most accurate in calculating when Pentecost is to be observed, but i also submit that the Day of Firstfruits can be used as a bridge between Sabbatarians and mainstream Christians who observe “Easter”.
feel free to contact me if you have any other questions regarding these topics, and i’m very willing to listen to any challenges you or others might have regarding my studies, which i do update over time as my perspectives change.
and just so you know, i don’t believe any of these doctrines to be salvational dependent — i remain convinced that there is only one salvational issue: the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus/Yahshua. the only caveat there has to do with repentance (of oneself) & forgiveness (of others).
i fully agree with your criticisms of the WCG & it’s offshoot organizations. as you say, so much bickering, and in my view, many elders among the offshoots make all sorts of doctrines salvation dependent.
i don’t think i could even recommend anyone to go to Living COG either, but i often get all the offshoot splits confused with one another. i *thought* CGI (Church of God International) had been moving in a very good direction, but over the past few years my opinion has dropped very low for some very specific and personal reasons…. besides the normal ones. ;-)
i have heard of David Pack. i don’t know much about him, but there were some very odd things i cannot currently recall which set up some red flags. i try to forget specifics about negative things i discover about fellow believers.
but yes, it appears that many people have attempted to resurrect the WCG brand. a couple decades ago i had helped out an elderly couple in the Pigeon Forge - Sevierville TN area with their church building they decided to build for use as a Feast site, mainly with designing and setting up a sound system and training them on how to use it. they had connected with Ray Wooten to hold his site there. long story short, they claimed they owned the name “Worldwide Church of God” (if i recall accurately) and desired to resurrect the brand. they got a bit crazy acting with Ray at the Feast, and he never went back there. i never did either. 8-)
i also do not like the church model where there is one man at the top. 119 Ministries did a couple presentations regarding “Chris’s Church Model”, which i fully agreed with — that all elders are equal; there is no “head” or “chief” elder. manmade religions have created the office of “pastor” being above the rest of the elders. you may not agree with that, but regardless, i highly recommend those presentations.
my understanding of God’s sacred calendar works with both solar and lunar celestial events. i would also go so far as to include the constellations, or “Mazzaroth”, which illustrate the time of year. thing is, i don’t know enough to understand how to use it… do we mark the sun or moon as it enters each constellation…?
regardless, my primary view is that Genesis 1:!4-15 take precedent over the barley harvest, because the barley harvest can change drastically dependent upon minute location changes. by contrast, the celestial bodies are more predictable across at least the northern hemisphere. i don’t know what to make of dealing with all that in the southern hemisphere, as it’s all backwards! ;-)
the believers i hang with generally go by the calculated calendar, because many of us believe it’s pretty close… often as close as or even more accurate than using the sighted method, considering weather issues. my opinion is that God’s people coming together is more important than getting the timing perfectly right.
i began my own calendar studies a couple decades ago or so, but i stopped because too many people were making these timing issues salvational. sad, because i really enjoy that entire topic — i find it fascinating.
now i’m sounding like Spok… “Fascinating Captain.” ;-)
btw, i only recently discovered that Leonard Nimoy was given liberty to come up with his own hand sign. the one he decided to use (according to online sources) is the Hebrew letter Shin, which stands for Shaddai, one of the names of God. i thought that was very cool.
agreed regarding the technicalities vs. the greater covenant, which i often refer to as God's Way (as opposed to satan's way) — mark of God vs. mark of satan/beast.
i guess i don't exactly see it as Jesus' flexibility, so much as His updating the covenant, which in some ways became a higher bar (ie: sinning even in one's mind). some Jews don't seem to agree with the concept of sinning in one’s mind, but only in action. Dennis Prager comes to mind as a contemporary example.
people vary in their concerns about disease, and i can certainly understand your personal concerns. in the ~30 years i’ve observed the New Covenant Passover, i’ve never even thought of the potential of contracting disease from washing someone’s feet. each observer must make such decisions on their own, and in our congregation we don’t force anyone to do something they are not comfortable with. yet, based upon an experiment a sister in Christ did in nursing school, regarding disease & other nasty living organisms, i mostly fear the underside of a woman’s purse. literally. 8-)
regarding Mazzaroth and the constellations, i personally believe it goes beyond astronomy (you might also), as i understand it has only to do with the *science* of the celestial bodies. my understanding is that the constellations tell the story of the plan of God for humankind. while astrology focuses upon what the “stars say about the individual”, the Mazzaroth focuses upon what God is doing. so again, the creation points to God, not us. ;-)
i’m very curious about what you found regarding Revelation using the constellations to give us the actual date of Jesus’ birth as August 21, 7BC…? i generally learn toward presuming His birth was at the time of the Feast of Tabernacles, and that’s probably not all that far off from it, albeit perhaps a bit early.
Well, I have to admit, brother, that you lost me entirely in a mess of language that appears to be meaningless. What happened to—as happened to the Passover lamb, we eat the bread remembering what He did on the cross, and drink the wine remembering what He did in shedding His blood? Only an idiot would think He was talking about cannibalism. He said it was spiritual language. Sometimes, the "covenant" language just confuses things to me. Sorry.
David, this was really aimed at the people—and the denominations—that have capitalized on that system, not at everyone. There are a a few groups out there where this system isn’t just a habit; it’s the root of what they believe. So if they get upset when they read this, it’ll be for a very specific reason. I hope that makes sense.
OK. I can accept that. Though I am an Episcopalian who prefers sharing the bread and wine at every service—in remembrance. You evidently hang out around a lot of religious weirdos. >grin< I don't think I know a single Calvinist, for example. I met the Lord at an RC home Bible study of charismatics. The sacrifice of the Mass is an abomination. It's probably that I gave up trying to sleep last night because I had too much yesterday.
Yeah, it's not about frequency; it's all about a heart issue (just like everything else). But when it's turned into a system, we have issues. And it seems that what men love to do, David, is to systemize things to their own understanding and benefit!
Let's see what kind of response this gets. It may get nothing. It may fire up a few people. We'll see. 🤔
i fully agree so long as you mean “their doctrine” — being relative to the “institutional church”. i'm sure we all look forward to Christ laying out His true doctrine on a great many things that we humans have corrupted, even in our best efforts to understand His Word. ;-)
Yea, I forget doctrine is supposed to be God's instructions for living. I usually define doctrine as that intellectual thing seminarians do to keep the church under control. I need to find a better word, I guess.
Thank you, Sergio. It’s almost as if you are “hearing” what I am and are getting to the topics I just do not have time to get to. It is amazing to see the Body work together this way. Shalom, achi.
It's my understanding that in the Hebraic worldview, blood itself is never the focus in the way it was for pagan cultures. Pagan religions often treated blood as a mystical substance with inherent power, something to be manipulated, consumed, or offered to coerce the gods. Scripture speaks very differently. When the Torah speaks of blood, it consistently explains why: “for the life is in the blood.” Blood is not sacred because it is blood; it is sacred because it represents a life that belongs to God. The emphasis is not on the substance spilled, but on the life given, taken, or preserved. This is why blood is prohibited for consumption because it is reserved for God as the giver and owner of life. In Hebraic thought, blood functions as a visible witness to life and death. We have to be careful not to shift the focus from life to blood itself or we risk moving away from the biblical framework toward the very pagan concepts Israel was repeatedly warned against adopting.
Also could go into how in Exodus 12 it speaks of eating the whole of the lamb from the head, to the innards the legs, we know Jesus was the sacrificial blemishless Passover lamb, so when we grasp the spirit behind the letter we understand the head metaphorically eating the head of the lamb meaning Jesus is our head whom we are subject to, we have the mind of the living Jesus Christ, affecting our thoughts, we taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ Jesus. The innards, he effects and transforms us radically from inside to outside, when we also understand every aspect of our human body biologically what the kidneys heart liver etc all do we understand and grasp the absolute depths of these wonderful powerful amazing truths of how Christ is in you as the hope of glory, legs are our walk in humility in agreement with Jesus and heavenly father and walking according to the spirit by abiding in Jesus as we walk together etc etc etc.... walking the narrow path walking upon the highway of Holiness, walking in God's righteousnessness.
Used to try and share this and many other insights of heavenly treasures with other brothers and sisters but they were never interested, actually would constantly be getting told off for sharing all these amazing insights #sigh# and Jesus told me not to throw what is holy to dogs or pearls to swine...
It was jarring — because it’s Passover-covenant language aimed at a Jewish audience (Judeans and Samaritans), not a literal command to drink blood (Torah forbids that). Yeshua is calling them to participate in the life of the Lamb by faith and covenant loyalty — “take me in, live from me” — and John even anchors it: “the words I speak are spirit and life.” Early Christians used strong sacramental language, sure, but the point isn’t cannibalism; it’s Passover participation in Messiah.
St Ignatius describes Docitists as heretics because, “They confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ.”
Justin Martyr: “the food, which is blessed by the prayer of His word and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.”
Fathers didn’t just hint at sacramental language, it’s everywhere.
John 6 occurs against the backdrop of the feeding of 5,000 and Jesus crossing the Red Sea.
I’m not denying patristic Eucharistic realism — I’m denying your inference. Quoting Ignatius/Justin shows how they later framed the Eucharist, not what Jesus meant as a Torah-breaking command in John 6. The dialogue is Passover/new-Exodus, aimed at Judeans and Samaritans, and Torah forbids consuming blood. John even frames it as “spirit and life.” So yes: Eucharistic participation — no: literal blood-drinking.
I mean, Polycarp was an actual disciple of John the Apostle. He speaks of real presence of Christ in Eucharist more than the two I listed. You’re creating a false dichotomy of sorts. The Jewish insight is great, but it doesn’t negate what church fathers taught
Tommy, I’m not arguing against participation or even strong sacramental language. I’m arguing for starting where the text starts.
John 6 is framed by Passover, and that “system” was already there every year—covenant remembrance, eating in faith, identifying with the Lamb, and Torah boundaries (blood isn’t food). This chapter isn’t Jesus inventing a new church rite from scratch; it’s him taking an existing Passover framework and saying, I’m the fulfillment—live from me.
So whatever we call it—Eucharist, communion—the meaning has to be governed by the Passover/Torah context of the text, not later man made institutional layers.
The point of my article is simple: John 6 is set in Passover, so Torah sets the categories. “Eat my flesh / drink my blood” is covenant-participation shock language aimed at Torah-formed hearers, not a literal blood-drinking command (Torah forbids that). I’m not arguing “no Eucharist” — I’m arguing “don’t detach John 6 from Passover and turn it into ritual mechanics.” The chapter is a Passover-shaped covenant test, not a church manual.
Always connected the institution of the new covenant established in Christ's blood wit the Passover because Jesus himself said to his disciples "How I have longed to eat this Passover with you." The life is in the blood Leviticus 17:11 so when Jesus says to drink his blood is obviously metaphorically as blood is sacred and must not be infested into the human body Acts 15:29, he was saying if we are eating and drinking him consuming him, abiding in him, whom he is,his character, nature image likeness and faith, we then have his very life coursing in and through us. By the Lord, the spirit. whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. 1 John 2:6
Even worldly people understand these concepts when they say inane things like I eat drink sleep TV. How is it then, those who say they belong to the living Christ Jesus cannot? Everything is a seamless red thread a tapestry woven beautifully together like the high priests seamless tunic that Jesus also wore and was cast lots over by the Roman soldiers, se another wonderful hidden treasure as Jesus is the true ad final high priest after the order of Melchizedek, from the beginning to the end the Alpha and the omega you will not find or grasp the wonderful hidden treasures revealed in the living Christ Jesus if you don't spend the time in knowing all the types and shadows revealed before from Genesis to Malachi. Yet truly these things are only illuminated and revealed when you spend time in holy intimacy with heavenly father, sitting at Jesus' feet and God's very own holy spirit whom by is grace will reveal these exquisite eternal priceless treasures that are far more valuable than inanimate money or objects! These are the many wonderful gifts and presents from our loving heavenly father and from Himself whom: Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. James 1:17
Ingested not infested though can indeed cause blood borne infectious diseases like cytomegalovirus, Aids, nanobot technology will obviously get passed through any blood transfusions unless you know exactly where you and whom you are receiving if you do choose to even receive blood.
This article requires 2 cups of coffee, not ‘just the one’ that Sergio suggests.
😂
this presents a very different approach to the topic of Passover, and one i’ve never approached or even had to approach.
i've never had any Biblical discussions with fellow believers who bring up transubstantiation. admittedly, i rarely have Biblical discussions with Catholics, but even my few Catholic friends never speak of it. i have largely thought that believers would never take the “eating My body & blood” metaphor literally, as with scriptures which suggest “plucking out one’s eye”, etc.
it is mind blowing to me that this topic even comes up. now i have to wonder… what percentage of Catholics (and/or Protestants?) actually believe the symbolic bread & wine that Jesus instituted as an event just prior to His crucifixion — which i view to be the New Covenant Passover — physically turns from literal “bread & wine” into the actual body & blood of Jesus? …30%? …70%? certainly not 100%! 😳
i’ve certainly heard about “communion” as practiced by perhaps the overwhelming majority of mainstream Christian church denominations. my understanding of it is that these church organizations include communion into their services based upon what many refer to as the “Lord’s Last Supper”. i also understand their reasoning for a weekly or monthly frequency is most likely due to their interpretation that Jesus suggested His followers should do it as often as they desire.
however, as i search again for these memorable words of Jesus, i don’t find them in the gospel accounts. Matthew 26 & Mark 14 record Jesus as saying, “eat/drink this bread/wine which is My body/blood in the New Covenant”, and then Luke 22 adds “do this in remembrance of Me”.
unless i missed it, there doesn’t appear to be any example within the gospels of Jesus suggesting whatsoever anything explicit about the frequency this eating of symbolic bread & wine should take place.
it’s not until later in 1Corinthians 11:25-26 where Paul makes this mention of Christ saying, ““This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”, then Paul goes on to say, “For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.”
so the question one might have remains: how often is “as often as” supposed to be in frequency cycle for this event?
the Sabbatarian church culture i have been in for ~30 years (and still trying to “come out of her” to some extent) embraces the following logic, as do i:
Q: when did Christ institute this “new” observance?
A: at Passover.
Q: did Christ give any indication that this “new” observance should be done at any time other than when He instituted it?
A: No.
Q: what does Paul explicitly state is being done whenever this event occurs?
A: by doing so we proclaim Jesus’ death (sacrifice) until He returns.
Q: what is the paramount substance of the New Covenant?
A: the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, Yahshua Messiah.
therefore, we understand that this proclamation of Jesus’ death & resurrection and the New Covenant to occur at the time of the Passover observance.
i do not share this to criticize in any way those who interpret the scriptures to mean that we should do “communion” at any time we desire.
i merely believe that because the mainstream church denominations have embraced the Roman Catholic Church’s changing of God’s Biblically commanded annual appointed times, believers have been removed to a large degree from understanding the intrinsic nature of how they have always prophetically pointed to Christ — specifically in this case, Passover: the first annual holy event on God’s sacred yearly calendar.
now, i personally refer to this event which occurs at various frequencies in various church denominations not as “communion” — and this is where my perspective differs from some others among my longstanding church culture — but the New Covenant Passover.
there are so many Passover studies that exist, and many might be considered painfully lengthy. my lengthy study on the subject, “Passover - From Old to New Covenant” is in three parts: Physical Exodus, Spiritual Exodus, and Crucifixion to Resurrection, and even an Intro to boot!
if anyone is interested in digging into this — hopefully not painfully long — study of mine, they can be found in the Appointed Times section at the bottom of my Articles page:
https://sites.google.com/site/seedsoftruth/articles?pli=1
yes, Passover observers can be extra… “particular” (might be the kindest word to use). sadly, many such have exemplified expressing literal condemnation against fellow observers who “don’t do it right” according to one’s own understanding. and believe it or not, most of such contention is over issues of timing: not coarse timing matters, like yearly, monthly, or weekly observance, but rather over what time of day or night during the 14th of God’s first month of His sacred year!
however, if anyone might find interest in reading a much shorter study which focuses primarily upon how one comes to understand “communion” and the “Last Supper” as being our New Covenant Passover in Christ, i suggest checking out my “Passover Simplified” study, also in the Appointed Times section of my website. here’s the direct link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DzmP6Rn6wsaXy3MzIVj92Pv_jIyWNZ0w/view
thank you again Sergio for sharing yet another fantastic & short study on this matter of transubstantiation… and the Biblical understanding of covenant.
Godbless… 🙏🏼😎❤️♾️
You’ve said some genuinely sharp things here that I needed to write down. One in particular hit hard: why would this be implemented before the covenant transaction is even complete? That’s a big question, and it matters more than we might realize!
On the second point—within Jewish life, Passover is already a beautiful meal. But when you’re Messianic, it comes alive in a way that’s hard to put into words. It’s not just meaningful; it’s felt. The afikoman, the search for the buried bread, the symbols, the story—it all becomes this glorious, weighty, heartfelt event. It’s honestly stunning.
But frequency-wise, I don’t think the point is ritual for ritual’s sake. The heart of it is when believers break bread together, talk, share life, and actually build community. That’s where remembrance happens—because you’re remembering Him, not performing a routine.
And that’s the key: it’s a heart issue, not an elements issue. If the elements become the focal point, they can turn into a distraction—just like elevating a pastor can become a distraction. The power isn’t in obsessing over the mechanics; it’s in the meaning.
Breaking bread is fellowship. It’s shared life. It’s covenant family. And that’s what He’s calling us into.
And seriously—thank you for taking the time to write such a long, thoughtful comment. I can tell you didn’t "phone" it in, and I really appreciate it!
“sharp” with regard to “fine points being made”? just checking that “sharp” isn't meaning that i may have been somehow offensively painful in making my points. ;-) but please, help me understand wherever i may be potentially offensive, as i’m striving to avoid doing so.
this hard hit that apparently causes you to ask a question i don’t think i have considered before, “why would this be implemented before the covenant transaction is even complete?”
my initial thought here is that because i generally have a different perspective of what is overwhelmingly understood as “communion” by the majority of the Christian mainstream, i’m not viewing this as entirely “new” event, but rather the fulfillment of a very old event: the Old Covenant Passover.
i go into this in my Passover Simplified study, which is only 22 pages long at 14 point font, so someone as scholarly as you could entirely read it while having morning coffee. ;-)
but just to share my perspective in few words, i believe the OT “YHWH” is Jesus Christ, Yahshua Messiah who manifested Himself during ancient times in various ways, and that His commands, including weekly Sabbaths & annual appointed times are eternal… as He is.
therefore, knowing that the physical temple would be destroyed, He provided a method for His people for continuing the true observance of Passover without there any longer being a Biblically sanctified method of doing so which mandates there being a sanctified physical temple, using physical sacrificial lambs.
thus, i believe He had this plan, that the Old Covenant physical method for Passover would be updated as a New Covenant spiritual method for Passover. the observance of Passover was implemented from the onset, and now it’s merely been updated in like manner as the Old Covenant was updated by the New Covenant.
this is the rationale for why our local congregation holds two special services for Passover: one annually memorializes the Old Covenant Exodus Passover physically removing His children Israel from the sin of Egypt, and one annually memorializes the New Covenant Passover in Christ, which spiritually removes His children Israel from our carnal sins eternally.
i believe the Exodus OC Passover was metaphorically prophetic regarding Messiah’s future sacrifice, while Messiah’s NC Passover is that fulfillment and the only way by which everyone’s sins could truly be atoned.
thus, i also believe that while the symbology never changed, only the symbols themselves changed — under the OC the physical lamb & its blood represented the body & blood of Messiah, while under the NC our Spiritual Lamb is now represented by the bread & the wine.
again, i go into more details about this in my short Passover Simplified study, but here’s an excerpt from our local congregation’s Passover website page (https://sites.google.com/site/fellowshipofthewordwnc/holy-days/passover):
“Fellowship of the Word holds two special services during our Lord's Biblically appointed time for the Passover.
The first is the New Covenant Passover, which is a memorial of Jesus Christ's sacrifice as our Messiah and Passover Lamb, including His institution of the New Covenant symbols for His body & blood (unleavened bread & wine). Also as exemplified with His apostles during the evening He was betrayed, we observe foot washing during this service as well (bring a basin and towel). We ask that everyone arrive ~30 minutes ahead of time for personal meditation.
The second is the Old Covenant Passover, which is a memorial celebration of ancient Israel's Exodus from their lengthy Egyptian slavery, which includes fellowship and a congregational meal (not a Seder). An RSVP is requested to make appropriate accommodations for the meal. This is also referred to by some as the “Night Much to be Observed” (literally: “night watch vigil”).
Being children of God in His New Covenant, we understand that the new symbols of our Messiah’s body & blood (unleavened bread & wine) were given as an update to the Old Covenant symbols for His body & blood (the yearly metaphorically sacrificed Passover lambs). Our understanding is that Jesus Christ, Yahshua Messiah, is our Passover Lamb whose shed blood and slain body washes away the sin of the world, which all prior Passover lamb sacrifices symbolically represented.”
so then on one hand i view the NC Passover institution as merely an update of sorts to the OC Passover, thus being implemented long before the entire fulfillment was completed — which i view to be both the crucifixion and resurrection of Yahshua.
on the other hand, the practical rationale for Christ instituting the NC Passover symbols is due to His knowing that the physical temple would be destroyed creating a necessity for this update, and that He would be put to physical death in the same very day upon which the Passover was originally commanded to occur.
i’m not certain all this fully answers your question, but it’s what came to mind when i read it, along with your thoughts about Passover within the Jewish life.
i agree that none of this is “ritual for ritual’s sake”, anymore than observing God’s appointed times are such, as they all are all about Jesus/Yahshua and God’s 7000 year plan for humankind’s redemption.
it’s all about being a “heart issue”, because as i understand it, the New Covenant is paramountly about God writing His laws upon our newly forming hearts (as new creatures in Him).
while i certainly understand the common perspective of our breaking bread with one another is to be considered as fellowship with one another in the New Covenant we have with Christ, i also understand that the NC Passover is a special commanded time of annual confirmation where we metaphorically “eat” Christ’s body & blood, as all believers have done since the Exodus Passover just in an updated method.
such is why we continue to eat unleavened bread for the following 7 days while dispensing with leavened bread, which symbolizes putting Christ into our lives while removing sin from our lives.
Christ instituted these new Passover symbols at Passover. i haven’t yet found any scripture which suggests in the least that these symbols can be separated from Passover.
and seriously, you are so very welcome for “sacrificing” ;-) a little bit of my time to share my thoughts, after you have put so much effort into all the writing that you do!
i wish we were physically closer, as i’d love to have you come speak sometime at our congregation. i’m certain you would be most appreciated! if you ever get near Western North Carolina, please let me know! 8-)
No, it was 100% a compliment. Sharp as in acute and perceptive!
you are very welcome! 8-) i was never in Worldwide COG, but i came along into observing God's appointed times just after its major split. my favorite two teachers who created their own independent ministries were Ronald Dart (of Christian Educational Ministries, which became Born To Win - still active website), and Ray Wooten (of United Christian Ministries).
over the years i attended for short stints with the larger organization which came out of Worldwide, like CGI (Church of God International) & UCG (United Church of God). however, there were some specific doctrines i simply couldn't agree with that were deal breakers for me: paramountly, the prohibition of women using their spiritual gifts during church services (holy convocation) AND the prohibition of children being *fully* involved in Passover observance. there are other administrative issues regarding the perceived “authority” of elders which i'm only looking more deeply into now, but somehow sensed i didn't agree with the norm in those organizations.
i doin't want to only share the things i didn’t like about those organizations, as my all time favorite doctrine from any Christian church came from those groups (i believe even within WWG), which is what many of us refer to as the “Fair Chance” doctrine — which teaches that repentance is not prohibited during the second resurrection. i’m still not certain i’ve heard this doctrine from any other Christian faith to this date. oddly enough, i’ve found that many believers have a very difficult time with this concept, and this has surprised me over time. we read so many passages about the [near] infinite mercy of God, yet so many seem to forget that when presented with this concept.
regardless, my view is that there are going to be a LOT of very pleasantly surprised Christians in both resurrections. ;-)
regarding Pentecost being a spring or summer observance, i presume you are referring to the Appointed Times chart on our local congregation’s Appointed Times webpage. i originally got that chart idea from 119 Ministries (a Sabbatarian group with whom i seem to doctrinally agree with most of the time). it’s very similar to theirs, but i updated a few things on it.
because most people refer to summer as not starting until the summer solstice, many Sabbatarians classify Pentecost along with the other spring appointed times, or holy days. ironically, for years now i’ve been considering viewing all that a bit differently than the norm. because to me, it seems more logical to place a solstice at the middle of the summer/winter season rather than the beginning of it, seeing as the solstice marks the extreme length/shortness of day/night. however, this is merely a personal observation, thus i generally conform to the seasonal norms which society has “ordained”. ;-)
not regarding the matter of spring vs. summer classification, if you are interested in digging into Pentecost, i recently made a substantial update to my study i used to call “Counting of Pentecost”, now called “Day of Firstfruits” which you can find in the Appointed Times section of my SeedsOfTruth website. in this updated study i try to provide scriptural evidence as to which way seems most accurate in calculating when Pentecost is to be observed, but i also submit that the Day of Firstfruits can be used as a bridge between Sabbatarians and mainstream Christians who observe “Easter”.
feel free to contact me if you have any other questions regarding these topics, and i’m very willing to listen to any challenges you or others might have regarding my studies, which i do update over time as my perspectives change.
and just so you know, i don’t believe any of these doctrines to be salvational dependent — i remain convinced that there is only one salvational issue: the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus/Yahshua. the only caveat there has to do with repentance (of oneself) & forgiveness (of others).
Godbless & stay in touch! 8-)
i fully agree with your criticisms of the WCG & it’s offshoot organizations. as you say, so much bickering, and in my view, many elders among the offshoots make all sorts of doctrines salvation dependent.
i don’t think i could even recommend anyone to go to Living COG either, but i often get all the offshoot splits confused with one another. i *thought* CGI (Church of God International) had been moving in a very good direction, but over the past few years my opinion has dropped very low for some very specific and personal reasons…. besides the normal ones. ;-)
i have heard of David Pack. i don’t know much about him, but there were some very odd things i cannot currently recall which set up some red flags. i try to forget specifics about negative things i discover about fellow believers.
but yes, it appears that many people have attempted to resurrect the WCG brand. a couple decades ago i had helped out an elderly couple in the Pigeon Forge - Sevierville TN area with their church building they decided to build for use as a Feast site, mainly with designing and setting up a sound system and training them on how to use it. they had connected with Ray Wooten to hold his site there. long story short, they claimed they owned the name “Worldwide Church of God” (if i recall accurately) and desired to resurrect the brand. they got a bit crazy acting with Ray at the Feast, and he never went back there. i never did either. 8-)
i also do not like the church model where there is one man at the top. 119 Ministries did a couple presentations regarding “Chris’s Church Model”, which i fully agreed with — that all elders are equal; there is no “head” or “chief” elder. manmade religions have created the office of “pastor” being above the rest of the elders. you may not agree with that, but regardless, i highly recommend those presentations.
my understanding of God’s sacred calendar works with both solar and lunar celestial events. i would also go so far as to include the constellations, or “Mazzaroth”, which illustrate the time of year. thing is, i don’t know enough to understand how to use it… do we mark the sun or moon as it enters each constellation…?
regardless, my primary view is that Genesis 1:!4-15 take precedent over the barley harvest, because the barley harvest can change drastically dependent upon minute location changes. by contrast, the celestial bodies are more predictable across at least the northern hemisphere. i don’t know what to make of dealing with all that in the southern hemisphere, as it’s all backwards! ;-)
the believers i hang with generally go by the calculated calendar, because many of us believe it’s pretty close… often as close as or even more accurate than using the sighted method, considering weather issues. my opinion is that God’s people coming together is more important than getting the timing perfectly right.
i began my own calendar studies a couple decades ago or so, but i stopped because too many people were making these timing issues salvational. sad, because i really enjoy that entire topic — i find it fascinating.
now i’m sounding like Spok… “Fascinating Captain.” ;-)
btw, i only recently discovered that Leonard Nimoy was given liberty to come up with his own hand sign. the one he decided to use (according to online sources) is the Hebrew letter Shin, which stands for Shaddai, one of the names of God. i thought that was very cool.
agreed regarding the technicalities vs. the greater covenant, which i often refer to as God's Way (as opposed to satan's way) — mark of God vs. mark of satan/beast.
i guess i don't exactly see it as Jesus' flexibility, so much as His updating the covenant, which in some ways became a higher bar (ie: sinning even in one's mind). some Jews don't seem to agree with the concept of sinning in one’s mind, but only in action. Dennis Prager comes to mind as a contemporary example.
people vary in their concerns about disease, and i can certainly understand your personal concerns. in the ~30 years i’ve observed the New Covenant Passover, i’ve never even thought of the potential of contracting disease from washing someone’s feet. each observer must make such decisions on their own, and in our congregation we don’t force anyone to do something they are not comfortable with. yet, based upon an experiment a sister in Christ did in nursing school, regarding disease & other nasty living organisms, i mostly fear the underside of a woman’s purse. literally. 8-)
regarding Mazzaroth and the constellations, i personally believe it goes beyond astronomy (you might also), as i understand it has only to do with the *science* of the celestial bodies. my understanding is that the constellations tell the story of the plan of God for humankind. while astrology focuses upon what the “stars say about the individual”, the Mazzaroth focuses upon what God is doing. so again, the creation points to God, not us. ;-)
i’m very curious about what you found regarding Revelation using the constellations to give us the actual date of Jesus’ birth as August 21, 7BC…? i generally learn toward presuming His birth was at the time of the Feast of Tabernacles, and that’s probably not all that far off from it, albeit perhaps a bit early.
So deep, so meaningfull, so complex but so liberated. Thank you and thank God for His spirit in you.
Thank you very much, Ursa, and Shalom!
Brother, you are a spiritual buffet…lol
I think that’s gonna be a T-shirt now lol. I love it thank you guys!
Well, I have to admit, brother, that you lost me entirely in a mess of language that appears to be meaningless. What happened to—as happened to the Passover lamb, we eat the bread remembering what He did on the cross, and drink the wine remembering what He did in shedding His blood? Only an idiot would think He was talking about cannibalism. He said it was spiritual language. Sometimes, the "covenant" language just confuses things to me. Sorry.
David, this was really aimed at the people—and the denominations—that have capitalized on that system, not at everyone. There are a a few groups out there where this system isn’t just a habit; it’s the root of what they believe. So if they get upset when they read this, it’ll be for a very specific reason. I hope that makes sense.
OK. I can accept that. Though I am an Episcopalian who prefers sharing the bread and wine at every service—in remembrance. You evidently hang out around a lot of religious weirdos. >grin< I don't think I know a single Calvinist, for example. I met the Lord at an RC home Bible study of charismatics. The sacrifice of the Mass is an abomination. It's probably that I gave up trying to sleep last night because I had too much yesterday.
Yeah, it's not about frequency; it's all about a heart issue (just like everything else). But when it's turned into a system, we have issues. And it seems that what men love to do, David, is to systemize things to their own understanding and benefit!
Let's see what kind of response this gets. It may get nothing. It may fire up a few people. We'll see. 🤔
Have I mentioned, that I am real happy that institutional churches and doctrine will be eliminated soon?
i fully agree so long as you mean “their doctrine” — being relative to the “institutional church”. i'm sure we all look forward to Christ laying out His true doctrine on a great many things that we humans have corrupted, even in our best efforts to understand His Word. ;-)
Yea, I forget doctrine is supposed to be God's instructions for living. I usually define doctrine as that intellectual thing seminarians do to keep the church under control. I need to find a better word, I guess.
Thank you, Sergio. It’s almost as if you are “hearing” what I am and are getting to the topics I just do not have time to get to. It is amazing to see the Body work together this way. Shalom, achi.
Shalom, achoti 😁
We need to keep this stuff coming out so people start digging. I agree 100% my friend.
Tag... your turn!
It's my understanding that in the Hebraic worldview, blood itself is never the focus in the way it was for pagan cultures. Pagan religions often treated blood as a mystical substance with inherent power, something to be manipulated, consumed, or offered to coerce the gods. Scripture speaks very differently. When the Torah speaks of blood, it consistently explains why: “for the life is in the blood.” Blood is not sacred because it is blood; it is sacred because it represents a life that belongs to God. The emphasis is not on the substance spilled, but on the life given, taken, or preserved. This is why blood is prohibited for consumption because it is reserved for God as the giver and owner of life. In Hebraic thought, blood functions as a visible witness to life and death. We have to be careful not to shift the focus from life to blood itself or we risk moving away from the biblical framework toward the very pagan concepts Israel was repeatedly warned against adopting.
Thanks, I think I learnt something here. Now, to apply it...
Also could go into how in Exodus 12 it speaks of eating the whole of the lamb from the head, to the innards the legs, we know Jesus was the sacrificial blemishless Passover lamb, so when we grasp the spirit behind the letter we understand the head metaphorically eating the head of the lamb meaning Jesus is our head whom we are subject to, we have the mind of the living Jesus Christ, affecting our thoughts, we taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ Jesus. The innards, he effects and transforms us radically from inside to outside, when we also understand every aspect of our human body biologically what the kidneys heart liver etc all do we understand and grasp the absolute depths of these wonderful powerful amazing truths of how Christ is in you as the hope of glory, legs are our walk in humility in agreement with Jesus and heavenly father and walking according to the spirit by abiding in Jesus as we walk together etc etc etc.... walking the narrow path walking upon the highway of Holiness, walking in God's righteousnessness.
Used to try and share this and many other insights of heavenly treasures with other brothers and sisters but they were never interested, actually would constantly be getting told off for sharing all these amazing insights #sigh# and Jesus told me not to throw what is holy to dogs or pearls to swine...
Always surprises me how others in the living Jesus Christ don't know these things. This is baby milk!!
Except no church father interpreted it this way at all. Christ is telling us to feed on his blood, it’s why it was so jarring
It was jarring — because it’s Passover-covenant language aimed at a Jewish audience (Judeans and Samaritans), not a literal command to drink blood (Torah forbids that). Yeshua is calling them to participate in the life of the Lamb by faith and covenant loyalty — “take me in, live from me” — and John even anchors it: “the words I speak are spirit and life.” Early Christians used strong sacramental language, sure, but the point isn’t cannibalism; it’s Passover participation in Messiah.
No
How so?
St Ignatius describes Docitists as heretics because, “They confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ.”
Justin Martyr: “the food, which is blessed by the prayer of His word and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.”
Fathers didn’t just hint at sacramental language, it’s everywhere.
John 6 occurs against the backdrop of the feeding of 5,000 and Jesus crossing the Red Sea.
I’m not denying patristic Eucharistic realism — I’m denying your inference. Quoting Ignatius/Justin shows how they later framed the Eucharist, not what Jesus meant as a Torah-breaking command in John 6. The dialogue is Passover/new-Exodus, aimed at Judeans and Samaritans, and Torah forbids consuming blood. John even frames it as “spirit and life.” So yes: Eucharistic participation — no: literal blood-drinking.
I mean, Polycarp was an actual disciple of John the Apostle. He speaks of real presence of Christ in Eucharist more than the two I listed. You’re creating a false dichotomy of sorts. The Jewish insight is great, but it doesn’t negate what church fathers taught
Tommy, I’m not arguing against participation or even strong sacramental language. I’m arguing for starting where the text starts.
John 6 is framed by Passover, and that “system” was already there every year—covenant remembrance, eating in faith, identifying with the Lamb, and Torah boundaries (blood isn’t food). This chapter isn’t Jesus inventing a new church rite from scratch; it’s him taking an existing Passover framework and saying, I’m the fulfillment—live from me.
So whatever we call it—Eucharist, communion—the meaning has to be governed by the Passover/Torah context of the text, not later man made institutional layers.
Then what is the point of the article
The point of my article is simple: John 6 is set in Passover, so Torah sets the categories. “Eat my flesh / drink my blood” is covenant-participation shock language aimed at Torah-formed hearers, not a literal blood-drinking command (Torah forbids that). I’m not arguing “no Eucharist” — I’m arguing “don’t detach John 6 from Passover and turn it into ritual mechanics.” The chapter is a Passover-shaped covenant test, not a church manual.