What an awesome post, Sergio!! Thank you for this.
And what a sharp point that we need to let the Scriptures themselves answer all the questions and timing.🙏🏻🔥⚔️
It’s never been God’s character to airlift his people out of trials, but rather to bring us through. Like Noah and his family through the flood, Daniel through the lion’s den, Shadrach Meshach and Abednego through the fire, and Job through the immense suffering….
As Paul says, “we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character; and character, hope.”
And how else will we prove our deep love and devotion for The Lord unless we have the opportunity to suffer for Him and to stand for Him at all costs.
I really worry about those who
believe in the rapture because I think they are being set up by satan to face great difficulty completely unprepared. And the shock and disappointment that they aren’t whisked away will likely cause many to be angry and possibly fall away. I think this is one of satan’s grandest deceptions to derail people at the end of time. We need to pray for them.
I’m going to save your article to share with anyone I end up talking with about this.
I have a question for you regarding
Israel. I have come to the belief that Israel is not a geographical location, but God’s people, no matter where they may be. So I believe *we* are Israel. I think there is a grand deception regarding the current state of Israel which was just formed in 1948. And Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 both warn against those who call themselves Jews but are not Jews, but the synagogue of satan.
Where are you on this? (I’m new here so I’m sorry if you’ve already explained this!)
I understand why you’re asking — these are big, tender questions, and a lot of people are wrestling with them right now.
Yes, Scripture absolutely shows that Israel can mean God’s covenant people wherever they are. Paul even says, “Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,” reminding us that faith and obedience matter deeply. So you’re not off-track at all in seeing that spiritual dimension.
At the same time, the Bible also speaks of God’s care for the physical descendants of Jacob and the Land itself. It’s not an either/or — it’s both a people of faith and a people with a historical promise.
And regarding Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 — those verses aren’t condemning an ethnicity. They’re speaking to people who claim to belong to God but live in ways that contradict Him. It’s about the heart, not the bloodline.
So in short: you’re sensing something real about God’s people being defined by covenant, and you’re not alone. And we can hold that truth without turning the modern state of Israel into something sinister. It’s simply a nation — imperfect like all nations — while God’s true family is always those who walk with Him.
Thank you so much for responding and for all your kindness, Sergio. You show the fruit of the Spirit in the way you speak to everyone.
I really appreciate you taking the time to answer so thoroughly and all you said!
One thing that has intrigued me, as I have become fully aware that the lies run thick and deep (more than we even know) in this age of deception, is the possibility that the land which is called Israel may actually not even be the true location of Israel. (which was a shock to me the first time I heard that) I’ve listened/watched several things on that and I don’t know anything for sure; however I do know that satan’s time is extremely short and he’s kicked into very high gear with deceptions in full force. So it would not surprise me one bit if that also is steeped in a lie.
I do believe there is somehting very shady going on because all of our USA elected politicians have an AIPAC handler (America-Israel Public Affairs Committee), which I find very bizarre. And many have dual citizenship with Israel. Given that I believe anyone in a high position is compromised, or else they wouldn’t be in that high position, I have very little trust and do think something is extremely off. I think satan is sucking Christians into a lie that no matter what, no matter how depraved the nation becomes etc., they must support and stand for Israel…even if their actions are directly opposed to the Word of God. Satan twists and perverts and he’s trying to take Christians off a cliff with the Christian Nationalism movement and I believe also with the way he and his minions are pushing Israel as we must support them at all costs.
I definitely do hear your words that we don’t necessarily need to turn the modern state of Israel into something sinister, but I think something is off there. Also when the popular opinion is so heavily on one side, that gives me great pause. We know we aren’t going to hear the truth applauded openly. And no doubt the powers that be are screaming to support modern day Israel.
Thank you again so much for responding and l’d love to hear anything else you think regarding all I just said!
You bring up a great point, and I haven't thought about it that way. It might actually be one of the enemy’s sharper moves: if he can tangle the government and the lineage into one indistinguishable bundle, then every political scandal becomes a spiritual indictment. People won’t just distrust a government—they’ll instinctively turn on the lineage itself.
And honestly, that would explain why the pressure feels so engineered. If the modern state grows darker, he gets two wins at once: the government looks corrupt and the lineage gets blamed by association. That’s the kind of deception he specializes in—blending categories until people can’t tell what they’re reacting to anymore.
It really is the same playbook on repeat, blend the government with the lineage, corrupt the fusion, and let the backlash fall on the lineage itself. Nicaea was the opening act of that strategy: merge what God kept distinct, rewrite the story through political power, and then use the state’s failures to stain the faith. What we’re seeing now is just the modern version of that ancient move, and honestly, I’m not surprised anymore.
So I’m starting to wonder if the real danger isn’t just the lie itself, but the fusion, the way he’s trying to make them rise or fall together so that when one collapses, the he attempts to make the other get buried with it.
You’re so cool! Thank you for chatting with me, Sergio. :)
I’m going to link you a couple things about this to see what you think.
One I’ll link in this comment and then I’ll link the 2nd one right below here.
This one is a video called “Occupied” by Stew Peters. This is extremely eye-opening/thought provoking. Watch at 51:30 for a few minutes and you’ll see the part about AIPAC infiltrating the US government. Heads up, there is really bad language in this from some of the guys being interviewed.
I’m very cautious with Stew Peters and other mainstream truthers because they’re allowed to maintain their position with a lot of followers, but regardless, even if compromised, these people are giving a whole lot of truth. (I believe their role is to give about 90% truth to honey trap truth seekers in, but then to ultimately derail them from the whole truth and from their salvation. There are a lot of false lights out there.)
After the part about our double-sided government in this video, there’s a very interesting alternate view given on the holocaust. I don’t know what the truth is on that but I do feel this scenario is a possibility. They’ve distorted so much of our history so it’s hard to know for sure.
Watch this one at 4:43:22 for just a few minutes. This is about the Noahide laws which are based on the Talmud, which says that proclaiming the name of Jesus as God will be considered blasphemy…and according to the Noahide laws, blasphemy comes with the penalty of decapitation.
Check out all of the rabbis with President Bush when the law was first signed in the 90s. (under the name “Education Day act”)
I really think we’re looking at those who are calling themselves Jews when they’re of the synagogue of satan.
Incidentally, this is a 5 hour video but it’s one of the absolute best things I’ve ever watched. It made my whole previous perception of this world go BOOM, which wasn’t fun but I then understood how satan has taken a hold of the entire wordstage and I know now how almost everything were being fed is a grand lie. And I am so incredibly grateful to know that truth, no matter how difficult.
This guy won the Australian X-Factor show and was deep into freemasonry and came out and risked his life by doing this video exposing all their secrets. This video is one of 2 videos I’ve watched since 2020 that I consider life-changing.
I thank The Lord for putting it in front of me.
We are living in such a time of deception that we will only make it with The Holy Spirit dwelling within us. 🙏🏻🙏🏻
Going through tribulation doesn't mean we are abandoned to anguish. "Though a thousand may fall at your side, and ten thousand at your right hand, no harm will come near you. You will only see it with your eyes and witness the punishment of the wicked." (Ps 91) This sounds to me like a "great tribulation" and for those that make YHVH their fortress, their promise is NO harm. I believe this.
Also, Rev 20:4-6 speaks of the first resurrection of the saints who refused the mark of the beast of the tribulation and the second resurrection a thousand years later when everyone else will be judged guilty. "Blessed are those who take part of the FIRST resurrection." But Pre and Mid Trib theories falsely assume TWO first resurrections, one at rapture and the other at Christ's return when the tribulation saints are resurrected 7 or 3.5 years later.
Psalm 91 shows the pattern clearly: God doesn’t remove His people from the place of shaking. He protects them in the middle of it. Revelation follows that same rhythm.
Your point about Revelation 20 is right on target. John only describes one “first resurrection,” and it belongs to those who stayed faithful through the beast’s reign. Pre-trib and mid-trib systems have to create an earlier version of that event to make their timelines work, but the text itself never separates them.
You’ve outlined the very real tension well. The promise is endurance with God’s covering, not an early exit!!
What you describe is the only way to make sense of the restoration that Peter spoke of in his Pentacost sermon. The gathering in. The renewal of the earth. The king in the parable who returns from the far country. Thanks for this esssay. We have so much to look forward to!
Thank you for the time and effort you've put into this. I've only heard of this interpretation once before (and it was kinda just shoved in a Youtube comment), so I appreciate that you explained it in a thorough manner. I would like to push back a bit, though, on the removal from versus leading through the Tribulation period. Specifically, in Luke's gospel, we get that the last days will not only be like those of Noah, but also of Lot (Luke 17:28-29), where Lot left Sodom and then the judgement came. To me, this seems like a rescue out of wrath rather than a leading through a time of trial. How would you answer this from your view? Thanks again!
The key issue is what Lot was rescued from, not when. Lot wasn’t removed from a future season of trial; he was removed at the moment of judgment. He lived in Sodom right up until the fire fell. The separation happened at the point of wrath, not years earlier.
That actually lines up with the broader biblical pattern. Israel wasn’t removed from Egypt before the plagues; they were protected through them and distinguished at the moment of judgment (Exodus 8–12). Noah wasn’t taken off the earth; he was preserved through the flood. In both cases, God knows how to guard the righteous while judgment unfolds, not by extracting them from history altogether.
In Luke 17, Jesus’ emphasis isn’t on a preemptive escape, but on sudden division at the revealing of the Son of Man. Normal life continues until the moment it doesn’t. That argues against a long, invisible removal and toward a public separation tied directly to judgment.
So from my perspective, Lot supports protection from wrath, not removal from tribulation. The Bible consistently distinguishes between tribulation (which the faithful endure) and wrath (which God pours out). Those aren’t the same thing.
I do appreciate the thoughtful engagement! That kind of pushback actually sharpens the conversation!! Thank you!
I have an opposing view from a higher place. Noah means rest. He entered the Ark (Jesus) and he found Peace after working out his salvation with fear & trembling. The first (1st) mention of ANY lifting UP, being caught Up, taken UP… “raptured’ (not in Bible) to be snatched away from the below to the above way of thinking and believing in in our Genesis. Noah was -NASA- in Hebrew UP ABOVE THE EARTH. 👍
So this is the heritage of the saints. We are the Kings of the East when we are born again with the Son-Sun. When we cry out to Jesus he takes away our sin. How fast? Blink it’s gone. Shout it’s gone. Though your sims are as scarlet in an instant your sin is white as snow. So Noah entered Christ with all his thoughts and he rested from all his work. He was all caught up. He knew.
While everyone who is still confused is waiting for a final answer… we who know the Lord are ALL CAUGHT UP. god says that when we sin we have a way of escape in that very moment of time. In a site and sound theater within the mind. We hear Him we see Him we feel He is there. Jesus Christ is not far away that we need to meet Him half way He is within me. I am not waiting for Him to come, He has come, He has eaten with me, He has taken me to higher ground. The only issue I have to still work out is remaining in His rest until I die my final death.
I can list many many “raptures” of “the harpazo NASA throughout the Bible. Just like the 12 resurrections in the Bible are there for a reason (let us reason together) so we understand that Jesus was not the only one to be lifted up to God. We can be taken away from our presently MIND and caught UP TO GOD AT ANY HOUR OF ANY DAY.
Yeah, I hear what you’re getting at, and I actually agree with a big part of the heart behind it, rest in Messiah is now, and being “caught up” with Him in our thinking, desires, and inner life is not something we wait for at the end of history. If we’re born from above, we’re already called to live from that “higher ground” (Eph 2:6, Col 3:1–3) instead of from the chaos around us.
Where I’d push back a bit is on collapsing everything into that inner experience and then reading every “up / lifted / above” passage as a secret code for rapture. Noah’s name really does mean “rest.” And yes, there’s beautiful foreshadowing in him entering the ark and being preserved through judgment. But that’s about trusting and obeying in the midst of judgment, not being mentally airlifted out of it. Same with “nasa” as a Hebrew root—interesting wordplay, sure, but it’s a stretch to hang a whole doctrine on that or to turn every “up” language into a private mystical harpazo.
From my perspective (biblically), there are two things that have to stay together:
•the present reality of being “all caught up” in Messiah—set apart in our minds, walking in His rest, escaping temptation in the moment;
•and the future reality Paul actually describes in 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15—real resurrection, real appearing, real vindication of the righteous in the middle of real tribulation, not just a theater in the mind.
My concern with a purely internal “rapture” is that it can end up flattening the story: no real-costly endurance, no real future hope of resurrection justice, just a mental state. The direction I’m trying to go in with this series is: stop waiting for an escape hatch, and start living as people who already belong to the coming Kingdom—ready to suffer, ready to obey, and ready to stand when the pressure hits, not just to float above it in our thoughts.
That being said, I appreciate your emphasis on rest and present union with Jesus. I just don’t think that replaces the very concrete, very costly path of faithfulness and future resurrection the Scriptures actually lay out. IMO
in conclusion I am not here anymore.. for I am risen. That is what God commands “I know and I trust” Him with my life forever.
I practice this mind set on His higher wisdom morning noon night and it’s my new way of life to die daily. To rise daily. To offer sacrifice daily as a reminder of what He did Is doing and will do for eternity.
What is real in today’s world of fake news? My salvation is very real to me and to me only. I am hidden in Christ and my seeing is believing. I am not waiting anyone like everyone else down here. It’s been real tough to break through this iron dome of thoughts BUT the view is so much clearer from up where I AM RIGHT NOW. I want you to “come up and see” Sergio.
You have come a long way but there is so much more to see and hear brother. Trust Him He will show you much more abundantly. But you have to die to all the earthly wisdom like I did… it’s a trial to get here and you must go through it many times.
Where am I coming from? Way up high above it all with Jesus… so when He comes to everyone else I am with Him. I am His exceedingly great reward (children are gift of God) and He is also mine inheritance for life.
But the eyes of the wicked will fail, and escape will elude them; they will hope for their last breath.”
No temptation has “overtaken’ you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide “a way of escape” out so that you can endure it.
if all this is so, then the Lord knows how to “rescue the godly” from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.
And lead us not into temptation, but “deliver us” from the evil one.’
WE HAVE BEEN SIGNED Aleph
WE HAVE BEEN SEALED Tav
WE HAVE BEEN DELIVERED Saved
I AM YOURS & YOU ARE MINE
When Jesus is your first AND last thought every day and hour HE HAS COME ALREADY. HE IS WITH YOU.. HIS REWARD.
God showed me that the 7 of Tribulation happens daily. Every single day can be a trial for many people. We work an 8 hour day but we get a 1 hour lunch break, so we work 3.5 hours in the morning and 3.5 hours in the afternoon for a total of 7 hours a day. Do you see what God is saying about the daily sacrifice? Worship is every morning every day breakfast lunch dinner. The “assembly” that HAS BEEN CAUGHT UP TO GOD know that it’s seven days a week not one day we worship Jesus. We lift HIM UP EVERY MORNING like the sunrise in our hearts. This is true worship… with His Spirit and His truth. Why wait any longer? Today is the day of salvation. Now is the appointed time…. IF you hear O Israel.. My people My assembly My thoughts that HAVE BEEN ENROLLED IN HEAVEN AND ARE WAITING FROM UP THERE NOT DOWN HERE.
WHEN YOU READ REVELATION ALL… ALL JUDGMENT IS COMING UPIN ‘those that dwell on the things of the earth… those that are still inhabitants of the earth below… There is NO MORE JUDGMENT FOR THOSE THAT HAVE DIED AND HAVE BEEN ALL CAUGH UP AND ARE SEATED IN HEAVENLY PLACES. THIS IS THE INHERITANCE WE GET WHEN WE DIE THEN LIVE AGAIN.
This is going all the way with God… every single day and hour…not making g a deal with Satan half way through each day.
Salvation starts internally. You can’t see it from the outside but you KNOW it from the inside. You CHANGE YOUR MIND. YOUR THOUGHT LIFE IS “BRAND’ New. We are a brand snatched from the fire 🔥… sometime daily. We die DAILY. WE TAKE UP our thoughts to Him daily.. when we die to our fleshly way of reasoning. God says “LET US’ reason TOGETHER AS ONE.
Yes I agree the “church” below has caught many in a trap. It’s the same with “replace” theology. Both sides are wrong.
Israel means the Tribes of God and the Church means Assemblies of God. They are both our old and new thoughts within.
What I would like you to consider is not thinking about the “below’ the “earth” but rather only think with your Spirit from above. We test the spirits for a “reason’ so we are aligned with His mind… not our mind. Remember that God wants our mind to be Hid mind… Let that mind be IN YOU that’s in Jesus Christ. So the resurrection can happen any moment any hour any day for someone who HAS DIED TO THE WORLD… Hence they are dead to sin the word the earth and raised back up in a new way of mind while still here below. There is a first death AND there is a second death. When we die to self we live again. Noah was thinking about one thing BEFORE HE WENT UP… He was thinking about how to build this coffin of wood for him and all us thoughts to die in. God sent all his creatures into the Ark signed and sealed them… then they were ALL DELIVERED UP TO GOD. When it was all over only the 4 made it to dry ground and landed on top of a mountain of God.
Psalm 125:1 says those that trust in the Lord shall be mounted UP LIKE ZION… they will never be moved and they will remain forever there in that higher place of safety above all the issues of the earth below. Noah escaped the wrath of God… and we can too as quickly as it says in Revelation… Jesus can come quickly when the world around you is in a raging chaos or burning you all over. He snatches us from the fire like He snatched Noah from the flood. This IS THE BAPTISM OF WATER & FiRE WE ALL MUST GO THROUGH. TO ENTER HIS MIND OF PEACE & REST.
Thank you for this stack Sergio! This has given me something new to consider. You've hit all the points and makes a compelling case. Valid, in light of scripture itself. This is why it's so crucial to look at the original scripture. Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek. But in thinkg about this, I do have a question. If this is really a transformation vs a snatching up / away, what about our position during the tribulation period? I've always held the belief in the "rapture" of the church body during the 3.5 yr (during/ mid) the tribulation. Whenever the transformation happens where are we during this if we are changed in an instant? Or am I asking the wrong question?
Jesus did say, will I find faith in the earth when I return? I think many will turn away for we here have been pampered far too long. Thank you for your comment.
I just clicked on it and gave it a brief run-through, and I love the message. It’s hard but needs to be taken seriously, but I'll take the time to read it thoroughly. I'm going to add it to my must-read list, and I do believe we're at a stage where the church is going to get stressed. However, what I'm not quite sure how to process is, what the real church is and how many people will easily opt out to avoid persecution. We all need to be awake, my friend.
Here is something I have always wondered about, when it says that He is coming for the living and the dead, doesn't that mean that the dead are just milling around waiting for His return? Wouldn't that mean that the only people in Heaven now would be the people that died before Christ was crucified? So, when we go to a funeral and the pastor says, "So and so is with the Father in Heaven now." Is that really true? I brought this up to a pastor once and he was appalled that I would say that. What do you think?
Yeah, give me a tough one mark lol! This is a huge subject on its own, but here are the basics in plain language:
•When Scripture says He will judge “the living and the dead,” it’s not describing where the dead are—just that He will judge everyone, whether alive at His return or already gone.
•The Bible almost always refers to the dead as “asleep.” Not wandering, not conscious, not already in Heaven. Asleep — held and waiting for resurrection.
•The consistent biblical hope is resurrection, not an instant trip to Heaven at death. Immortality is always tied to His return, not the funeral.
•That familiar line, “They’re with the Father now,” is comforting tradition, but it isn’t what Scripture actually teaches. According to the text, the dead wait for the Day when they’re raised.
Bottom line Mark… they’re not milling around and they’re not in Heaven yet. They’re simply asleep in God’s care, waiting for resurrection — the moment everything actually happens.
Hi. Thank you for this very much 'down to earth' exegesis. It makes a lot of sense. Basically, the double Second Coming of our Lord has always seemed to me a little strained. Too many explanations are needed. However, we will only know when we know really. I have a question regarding Matthew 22:29-33 and how it would actually work out within your 'rapture/greeting the Lord' scenario: 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. 31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” 33 And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching. Especially verse 30. How would we switch from living as males and females to living 'like angels' on earth? Just covering all bases. Thanks again.
Thank you for such a thoughtful question, truly! Hope this helps, in Matthew 22 Jesus is talking specifically about the resurrection life, not our present human experience. His point is that in the resurrection people no longer marry, just as angels do not marry. He is not saying we lose our humanity or the way God made us.
Paul explains the same thing in 1 Corinthians 15. At the Lord’s appearing the dead are raised and the living are transformed, but into glorified human bodies, not angelic ones. We remain who we are, just renewed and made incorruptible. The only thing that changes in that sense is marriage, not our identity.
Thanks for getting back to me so soon. 1 Corinthians 15 explains the process of transformation of the natural into the spiritual (something which occurs throughout the Bible and contradicts much of popular spirituality where people somehow would attempt to eliminate the natural - the seed - and go directly to the spiritual). Paul's explanation, as I see it, points to Christ Jesus as the only precedent of this transformation (the First Fruits) but his description of the transformation in those who are clothed in spirituality while alive at the time of His coming appears to be a resurrection without death. I understand that those alive at Jesus' second coming will not need to die a natural death, while those dead in Christ Messiah will come back to life. Which understand to mean that only His death was necessary for our salvation. Is it possible that the body of the resurrected ones will be alike in nature to the body of Christ Jesus after His resurrection, when even those who'd known Him could barely recognise Him? I imagine that Jesus coming back in power and glory will enable that transformation to take place here on earth, the same transformation the disciples and Israel experienced working in the miracles He performed during His first coming. Is that how you see it?
Thank you for this, brother. You’re reading 1 Corinthians 15 in the right direction.
Paul really is showing two things at once:
1. the resurrection of those who have died, and
2. the instantaneous transformation of those still alive at His coming.
As you said, that second group experiences a resurrection-type change without passing through death, which is exactly what Paul means by “we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.”
And yes, Christ is the pattern. He is the “firstfruits,” so whatever His resurrected body was like is the model for ours: physical, glorified, recognizable yet transformed, able to eat, speak, be touched, and yet no longer bound by mortality. His closest friends recognized Him, but often only after a moment — which tells us the transformation is real, not symbolic, yet still continuous with who we are.
So to your question: I do see it the way you’re describing. When He appears in glory, that same power that raised Him will clothe the living in immortality on the spot, just as it raises the dead. Paul ties both groups together in one great moment at the Lord’s appearing, and Jesus’ own resurrected life is the pattern for what we will be.
Lazarus was raised, but not resurrected in the 1 Corinthians 15 sense. He came back to normal mortal life, which means:
he still aged,
he still had a natural body,
and he eventually died again.
His raising was a sign of Jesus’ authority over death, not the final transformation Paul describes.
Resurrection, in the New Testament sense, is different. It means:
an immortal, glorified body,
incapable of dying again,
patterned after Jesus’ own resurrected life.
So Lazarus was restored to life, but he was not given the resurrection body that only comes at the appearing of Christ. That’s why Paul calls Jesus “the firstfruits” His resurrection is the first of that kind of life.
I appreciate you taking the time to answer all my questions. Thank you!
I thought I only had 1 question more for you. I was wrong, here are some more:
John 21:23
Therefore this saying went out among the brothers, that this disciple does not die. But Jesus had not said to him that he does not die, but, "If I desire him to remain until I come, what is it to you?"
What does this all mean in the context of the rapture and resurrection? What does it tell us about John as opposed to the other apostles?
Thank you for this post. It is intriguing. The notion of being left behind as being a blessing and how it has been inverted by church tradition is fascinating and gives me much to think about and consider.
I’m curious — asking from a spirit of genuine inquiry, curiosity and desire to learn — in the “the church is removed” model of the rapture, 2 Thessalonians 2 discusses the man of lawlessness, and how he is currently restrained until “he is out of the way”
I’ve heard this explained as the restrainer being the Holy Spirit who, when the church is raptured (removed from the earth), the Spirit will also depart. I see some problems with that, but I’m curious how you understand this chapter, in context of what you have described in this article?
Thanks in advance for discussing and sharing your thoughts
The “restrainer” in 2 Thessalonians 2 is one of the most debated pieces of Paul’s writings, but I don’t think Paul is pointing to the Holy Spirit or the removal of the church. That idea only appears in modern rapture theology, not in the text itself.
A few quick anchors:
1. The Spirit cannot be “taken out of the way.”
David’s prayer in Psalm 139 still stands, and Pentecost permanently rooted the Spirit in the life of the world. If the Spirit were removed, no one could repent, believe, or even call on God. Even the tribulation saints in pre-trib systems contradict this idea.
2. Paul uses language already familiar to his Jewish audience.
The idea of a “restrainer” shows up in Daniel — a heavenly figure holding back a season of lawlessness until its appointed time. In that context, the restrainer is not the people of God being removed but God’s sovereign timing holding evil in check until the moment He allows it.
3. Nothing in the chapter suggests the church leaves the world before the rebellion.
In fact, Paul warns believers that they must not be “shaken” by claims that the Day of the Lord has already arrived. Why? Because certain events — the rebellion and the revealing of the man of lawlessness — must happen first. That only makes sense if the church is here to witness them.
4. The plain reading is this:
The restrainer is God’s own delaying hand. When He removes the restraint, the man of lawlessness is revealed, and then the Lord destroys him at His coming. No disappearance of believers is required in the text.
So in the framework I laid out in the article, 2 Thessalonians 2 actually reinforces the pattern: believers endure a season of shaking, yet they are not abandoned in it. They are protected, preserved, and ultimately vindicated when the Lord appears.
Have to say that the Holy Spirit could be taken out of the way and people could still repent, believe, and call on God—just as they did before Christ came. The Holy Spirit is recorded as resting upon only a few of the faithful OT believers, and there is no indication of His presence within or upon the disciples of Jesus until Pentecost.
Kay, the way I approach this is by looking at how Scripture frames the Spirit. In Hebrew, Ruach HaKodesh isn’t a presence that comes and goes. It’s God’s own consciousness moving in the world, His breath, His awareness, His life-giving activity. That same ruach empowered repentance and faith long before Pentecost.
That’s why Jeremiah 31:33 matters here. In the new covenant promise, God doesn’t pull back. He does the opposite. He puts His Torah within His people and writes it on their hearts. That’s an intensification of His presence, not a withdrawal.
So when Paul mentions a “restrainer” in 2 Thessalonians 2, I don’t see him describing the Spirit leaving the world. The ruach is the very reason anyone turns toward God in any age. Paul seems to be saying something much simpler: God holds back the unveiling of the man of lawlessness until the appointed moment, and then the Lord removes him at His coming.
That’s the lens I’m working from. ( I love the dialogue. I appreciate you. )
If the text means that the Holy Spirit will be removed, it would necessarily mean the removal of the Church. Right now the Holy Spirit in the Church, the body of believers, is holding back the pouring out of evil in the world. I can see this in real time, not as prophecy. We are God’s army, battling on different fronts. If the army is taken away, the Spirit indwelling us will necessarily leave as well. That doesn’t mean He won’t operate in a different way, just not as the One enabling a corporate resistance.
I think we’re tracking together. You’re describing the Spirit’s corporate restraining work through God’s people—not the Spirit actually leaving the world—and that fits the Hebraic picture beautifully. Ruach HaKodesh doesn’t vanish; He shifts how He moves. And honestly, that lines up with how Paul handles the “restrainer” too. He never names it directly, but in the flow of Second Temple thought, the restrainer is God’s own active decision to hold back the rise of the lawless one until the right moment.
It’s not removal, it’s timing. God simply steps aside from restraining so the rebellion can surface. So when you frame it as the unified, Spirit-shaped community being taken “out of the way,” that fits the pattern without implying God withdraws from His creation. I appreciate this back-and-forth, it really does sharpen both of us!!
Revelation 3:10 is often read through a modern lens, but in the Hebraic context it’s a covenant promise of protection—not removal. The phrase “keep you from” (tēreō ek) means to guard or preserve, the same way God protected His people through trials throughout Scripture. The “hour of testing” fits the prophetic pattern of localized judgment on the Land, not a global escape event. So the promise to the believers in Philadelphia is about God’s covering in a moment of crisis, not a rapture out of the world.
Yeshua used the same construction in John 17:15:
“I do not ask that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one.”
Same idea: protection without removal.
I hope this helps, let me know if I missed your question.
Here’s a warm, respectful, dialectic reply that stays friendly, grounded, and firm without sounding argumentative:
⸻
Kay Anne, thank you for responding with such grace. I genuinely appreciate the tone you brought here.(rare btw)
You’re absolutely right that Revelation was written in Koine Greek. My point wasn’t that the text is Hebrew in language, but that John thinks and writes out of a Hebraic worldview. His symbols, references, and patterns are drawn straight from the Tanakh and the prophetic tradition. So even when the language is Greek, the thought-world underneath it is thoroughly Jewish. That’s all I meant by a “Hebraic perspective.”
As for the rapture timing, I completely hear you. It isn’t a salvation issue, and faithful people land in different places. My goal isn’t to win a position but to stay close to how John’s first-century audience would’ve heard these images. Like you said, we’ll all see how it plays out.
That being said, I truly appreciate you engaging the conversation with kindness. It makes the dialogue worth having.😊
You have to please forgive me. I accidentally hit the wrong button, I was doing this at a stoplight, which is ignorant. Here’s the response I had to your comment. I apologize !!
Original comment:
From Kay Anne on 3:10:
No you perceived the question correctly. However, since the Book of Revelation was written in Koine Greek and not Hebrew, I respectfully disagree with your response. That’s ok though! The Rapture (I am confidently pre trib), is not a matter of salvation, so I guess we’ll find out later (soon) whose eschatology was correct.
—————————————————————-
thank you for responding with such grace. I genuinely appreciate the tone you brought here.
You’re absolutely right that Revelation was written in Koine Greek. My point wasn’t that the text is Hebrew in language, but that John thinks and writes out of a Hebraic worldview. His symbols, references, and patterns are drawn straight from the Tanakh and the prophetic tradition. So even when the grammar is Greek, the thought-world underneath it is thoroughly Jewish. That’s all I meant by a “Hebraic perspective.”
As for the rapture timing — I completely hear you. It isn’t a salvation issue, and faithful people land in different places. My goal isn’t to win a position but to stay close to how John’s first-century audience would’ve heard these images. Like you said, we’ll all see how it plays out.
Still, I truly appreciate you engaging the conversation with kindness. It makes the dialogue worth having.
I appreciate your time and thoughtfulness on this topic, and agree there is much misunderstanding about eschatology in Christian circles, particularly Protestant traditions. The idea of escaping this earth to strum harps in the clouds seems to me foreign to the witness of scripture, the teaching (much less the experience!) of the historic Church, and in part explains modern western Christian’s lack of a mature theology of suffering.
I think one of the more overlooked patterns for understanding the ‘last days’ is the biblical feast days instituted by God himself and partially fulfilled by Christ (namely Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, Pentecost). These are not mere Jewish traditions, but ‘remembrances’ God intended as a sort of liturgy to help us remember remember remember…and anticipate! Certainly much debate about how to interpret Revelation, but what is undeniable is the Last Trumpet (Rosh Hashanah), The Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), and the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot), and what these ‘shadows’ mean for our future.
Certainly as Christians we are not bound to observe these in the same way as the Israelites, but we benefit most as those who see the substance now (Christ!), and if they were important enough to God to institute and then perfectly fulfill the ‘Spring Feasts’ in Christ’s first coming, we are myopic indeed to think He will not fulfill the ‘Fall Feasts’ sequence in His coming again.
I’m curious if that framework has informed your thoughts on this topic at all?
You conflate Christs second coming with the rapture that occurs 7 years before and it sounds plausible, all dressed up in poetry.
Failure to distinguish between the two events leaves out the nation of Israel as Gods focus in the end, as He promised, and the millennial reign of Christ where much of what you say will be fulfilled, but not until the rapture, the tribulation and then the millennial kingdom.
Nice sounding words and Jewish patterns for sure but incorrect timing.
I appreciate where you are coming from, and I understand that the distinction between a rapture before the tribulation and the later appearing of Christ feels essential within that framework. My approach is not about collapsing events for the sake of poetry. It is simply about letting the Scriptures define the timeline rather than the system defining the Scriptures.
When Paul speaks of the return of Messiah, he never separates the gathering of believers from the appearing of the Lord. In 2 Thessalonians 2:1 he speaks of “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him” as one unified moment. He does the same in 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17, where the descent of the Lord, the resurrection, and the catching up of the faithful are presented as a single sequence. There is no mention of a second, earlier event.
Jesus also describes His appearing in Matthew 24. The gathering of the elect follows the visible arrival of the Son of Man. There is no hint of a secret removal taking place years before.
I also take Israel’s role seriously. The prophets do not divide Messiah’s triumph into two events separated by seven years. They tie the resurrection, Israel’s restoration, and the Day of the Lord into one great unveiling. Ezekiel 37, Daniel 12:1–2, and Zechariah 14 all present the same pattern. To split these elements into two distinct comings actually breaks the prophetic rhythm rather than preserving it.
So the timing issue is not about rejecting Israel or ignoring the millennial kingdom. It is simply about following the structure the Scriptures themselves give. If we stay inside the text rather than the later system built around it, the picture becomes far more unified.
If you ever want to walk through these passages together, I am glad to do it.
The dispensational position is derived from scripture, not the other way around.
And no, respectfully decline to debate this complex issue via back and forth texts.
Maybe another time.
And yes, the prophets, when understood in light of the Messiah being rejected first time around, after a literal rendering of their prophecies, and the added hindsight we have since Christ established the church, do divide Messiah’s triumph into separate events. Same as how they, before Christ came had trouble differentiating between two separate comings of Jesus.
And so, many prophecies regarding the nation of Israel that were fulfilled or partially fulfilled or have a dual purpose, will be fulfilled in the 7 year tribulation when the church will be out of the way so to speak.
Totally understand, and I respect your choice not to go back and forth on something this involved. I’ll leave you with one simple point from the text itself.
The New Testament only speaks of two comings of Messiah. His first in humility and His second in glory. It never presents a third event seven years earlier to remove the church before the Day of the Lord. In 2 Thessalonians 2 Paul places believers within the events leading up to the Lord’s appearing, not outside of them.
And with Israel, I agree they are central to God’s plan. I simply see their restoration, the resurrection, and the Lord’s appearing arriving together as the prophets describe.
No pressure to continue. I appreciate the exchange.
Thx but sorry, his second is in glory for sure as well as wrath and judgement against enemies who refuse to bow.
And Gods wrath is not for his bride the church who are removed beforehand.
That from the OT as well as the New.
Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. (Revelation 3:10, NASB)
So yes, nice exchange . Both of convinced the other is wrong.
When I read the New Testament on its own terms, without any system laid over it, I don’t see Scripture creating the core distinctions that dispensationalism depends on. For example:
1. The Scriptures never divide God’s people into two programs.
Ephesians 2:14–16 and Romans 11 show one new man and one olive tree, not two separate end-time tracks.
2. The Scriptures never divide Messiah’s future work into two separate comings.
Hebrews 9:28 gives one future appearing. Jesus in Matthew 24 and Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 and 2 Thessalonians 2 describe one gathering tied to that appearing.
3. The Scriptures never place the church’s rescue before tribulation events.
Paul explicitly warns the opposite in 2 Thessalonians 2:1–3.
Those are not small points. Those are the pillars the entire dispensational structure rests on. If the text does not teach those distinctions, then the system has to supply them.
And that is why I see the story differently. Not because I reject God’s protection, or Israel’s role, or Messiah’s glory, but because the text itself does not create the separations that dispensationalism requires.
What an awesome post, Sergio!! Thank you for this.
And what a sharp point that we need to let the Scriptures themselves answer all the questions and timing.🙏🏻🔥⚔️
It’s never been God’s character to airlift his people out of trials, but rather to bring us through. Like Noah and his family through the flood, Daniel through the lion’s den, Shadrach Meshach and Abednego through the fire, and Job through the immense suffering….
As Paul says, “we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character; and character, hope.”
And how else will we prove our deep love and devotion for The Lord unless we have the opportunity to suffer for Him and to stand for Him at all costs.
I really worry about those who
believe in the rapture because I think they are being set up by satan to face great difficulty completely unprepared. And the shock and disappointment that they aren’t whisked away will likely cause many to be angry and possibly fall away. I think this is one of satan’s grandest deceptions to derail people at the end of time. We need to pray for them.
I’m going to save your article to share with anyone I end up talking with about this.
I have a question for you regarding
Israel. I have come to the belief that Israel is not a geographical location, but God’s people, no matter where they may be. So I believe *we* are Israel. I think there is a grand deception regarding the current state of Israel which was just formed in 1948. And Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 both warn against those who call themselves Jews but are not Jews, but the synagogue of satan.
Where are you on this? (I’m new here so I’m sorry if you’ve already explained this!)
I understand why you’re asking — these are big, tender questions, and a lot of people are wrestling with them right now.
Yes, Scripture absolutely shows that Israel can mean God’s covenant people wherever they are. Paul even says, “Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,” reminding us that faith and obedience matter deeply. So you’re not off-track at all in seeing that spiritual dimension.
At the same time, the Bible also speaks of God’s care for the physical descendants of Jacob and the Land itself. It’s not an either/or — it’s both a people of faith and a people with a historical promise.
And regarding Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 — those verses aren’t condemning an ethnicity. They’re speaking to people who claim to belong to God but live in ways that contradict Him. It’s about the heart, not the bloodline.
So in short: you’re sensing something real about God’s people being defined by covenant, and you’re not alone. And we can hold that truth without turning the modern state of Israel into something sinister. It’s simply a nation — imperfect like all nations — while God’s true family is always those who walk with Him.
Hope that helps!
Thank you so much for responding and for all your kindness, Sergio. You show the fruit of the Spirit in the way you speak to everyone.
I really appreciate you taking the time to answer so thoroughly and all you said!
One thing that has intrigued me, as I have become fully aware that the lies run thick and deep (more than we even know) in this age of deception, is the possibility that the land which is called Israel may actually not even be the true location of Israel. (which was a shock to me the first time I heard that) I’ve listened/watched several things on that and I don’t know anything for sure; however I do know that satan’s time is extremely short and he’s kicked into very high gear with deceptions in full force. So it would not surprise me one bit if that also is steeped in a lie.
I do believe there is somehting very shady going on because all of our USA elected politicians have an AIPAC handler (America-Israel Public Affairs Committee), which I find very bizarre. And many have dual citizenship with Israel. Given that I believe anyone in a high position is compromised, or else they wouldn’t be in that high position, I have very little trust and do think something is extremely off. I think satan is sucking Christians into a lie that no matter what, no matter how depraved the nation becomes etc., they must support and stand for Israel…even if their actions are directly opposed to the Word of God. Satan twists and perverts and he’s trying to take Christians off a cliff with the Christian Nationalism movement and I believe also with the way he and his minions are pushing Israel as we must support them at all costs.
I definitely do hear your words that we don’t necessarily need to turn the modern state of Israel into something sinister, but I think something is off there. Also when the popular opinion is so heavily on one side, that gives me great pause. We know we aren’t going to hear the truth applauded openly. And no doubt the powers that be are screaming to support modern day Israel.
Thank you again so much for responding and l’d love to hear anything else you think regarding all I just said!
You bring up a great point, and I haven't thought about it that way. It might actually be one of the enemy’s sharper moves: if he can tangle the government and the lineage into one indistinguishable bundle, then every political scandal becomes a spiritual indictment. People won’t just distrust a government—they’ll instinctively turn on the lineage itself.
And honestly, that would explain why the pressure feels so engineered. If the modern state grows darker, he gets two wins at once: the government looks corrupt and the lineage gets blamed by association. That’s the kind of deception he specializes in—blending categories until people can’t tell what they’re reacting to anymore.
It really is the same playbook on repeat, blend the government with the lineage, corrupt the fusion, and let the backlash fall on the lineage itself. Nicaea was the opening act of that strategy: merge what God kept distinct, rewrite the story through political power, and then use the state’s failures to stain the faith. What we’re seeing now is just the modern version of that ancient move, and honestly, I’m not surprised anymore.
So I’m starting to wonder if the real danger isn’t just the lie itself, but the fusion, the way he’s trying to make them rise or fall together so that when one collapses, the he attempts to make the other get buried with it.
You have me thinking!
You’re so cool! Thank you for chatting with me, Sergio. :)
I’m going to link you a couple things about this to see what you think.
One I’ll link in this comment and then I’ll link the 2nd one right below here.
This one is a video called “Occupied” by Stew Peters. This is extremely eye-opening/thought provoking. Watch at 51:30 for a few minutes and you’ll see the part about AIPAC infiltrating the US government. Heads up, there is really bad language in this from some of the guys being interviewed.
I’m very cautious with Stew Peters and other mainstream truthers because they’re allowed to maintain their position with a lot of followers, but regardless, even if compromised, these people are giving a whole lot of truth. (I believe their role is to give about 90% truth to honey trap truth seekers in, but then to ultimately derail them from the whole truth and from their salvation. There are a lot of false lights out there.)
After the part about our double-sided government in this video, there’s a very interesting alternate view given on the holocaust. I don’t know what the truth is on that but I do feel this scenario is a possibility. They’ve distorted so much of our history so it’s hard to know for sure.
https://www.brighteon.com/76e6b7eb-5c83-472e-b85b-ce96bfda199a
Here’s the next one!
Watch this one at 4:43:22 for just a few minutes. This is about the Noahide laws which are based on the Talmud, which says that proclaiming the name of Jesus as God will be considered blasphemy…and according to the Noahide laws, blasphemy comes with the penalty of decapitation.
Check out all of the rabbis with President Bush when the law was first signed in the 90s. (under the name “Education Day act”)
I really think we’re looking at those who are calling themselves Jews when they’re of the synagogue of satan.
Incidentally, this is a 5 hour video but it’s one of the absolute best things I’ve ever watched. It made my whole previous perception of this world go BOOM, which wasn’t fun but I then understood how satan has taken a hold of the entire wordstage and I know now how almost everything were being fed is a grand lie. And I am so incredibly grateful to know that truth, no matter how difficult.
This guy won the Australian X-Factor show and was deep into freemasonry and came out and risked his life by doing this video exposing all their secrets. This video is one of 2 videos I’ve watched since 2020 that I consider life-changing.
I thank The Lord for putting it in front of me.
We are living in such a time of deception that we will only make it with The Holy Spirit dwelling within us. 🙏🏻🙏🏻
Thanks again for chatting, Sergio!
https://youtu.be/7Eeo-82Eac8?si=GHerzghJy_iXu2ia
Great question, I’ll get back you in a bit 😊
Brilliantly argued.
Going through tribulation doesn't mean we are abandoned to anguish. "Though a thousand may fall at your side, and ten thousand at your right hand, no harm will come near you. You will only see it with your eyes and witness the punishment of the wicked." (Ps 91) This sounds to me like a "great tribulation" and for those that make YHVH their fortress, their promise is NO harm. I believe this.
Also, Rev 20:4-6 speaks of the first resurrection of the saints who refused the mark of the beast of the tribulation and the second resurrection a thousand years later when everyone else will be judged guilty. "Blessed are those who take part of the FIRST resurrection." But Pre and Mid Trib theories falsely assume TWO first resurrections, one at rapture and the other at Christ's return when the tribulation saints are resurrected 7 or 3.5 years later.
Sorin, you’re getting to the heart of it!!
Psalm 91 shows the pattern clearly: God doesn’t remove His people from the place of shaking. He protects them in the middle of it. Revelation follows that same rhythm.
Your point about Revelation 20 is right on target. John only describes one “first resurrection,” and it belongs to those who stayed faithful through the beast’s reign. Pre-trib and mid-trib systems have to create an earlier version of that event to make their timelines work, but the text itself never separates them.
You’ve outlined the very real tension well. The promise is endurance with God’s covering, not an early exit!!
Love it!
Thank you Sergio, I appreciate your encouragement as I always wonder if my writing is clear.
Very!
What you describe is the only way to make sense of the restoration that Peter spoke of in his Pentacost sermon. The gathering in. The renewal of the earth. The king in the parable who returns from the far country. Thanks for this esssay. We have so much to look forward to!
Thank you for the time and effort you've put into this. I've only heard of this interpretation once before (and it was kinda just shoved in a Youtube comment), so I appreciate that you explained it in a thorough manner. I would like to push back a bit, though, on the removal from versus leading through the Tribulation period. Specifically, in Luke's gospel, we get that the last days will not only be like those of Noah, but also of Lot (Luke 17:28-29), where Lot left Sodom and then the judgement came. To me, this seems like a rescue out of wrath rather than a leading through a time of trial. How would you answer this from your view? Thanks again!
Great question, and it’s a fair pushback.
The key issue is what Lot was rescued from, not when. Lot wasn’t removed from a future season of trial; he was removed at the moment of judgment. He lived in Sodom right up until the fire fell. The separation happened at the point of wrath, not years earlier.
That actually lines up with the broader biblical pattern. Israel wasn’t removed from Egypt before the plagues; they were protected through them and distinguished at the moment of judgment (Exodus 8–12). Noah wasn’t taken off the earth; he was preserved through the flood. In both cases, God knows how to guard the righteous while judgment unfolds, not by extracting them from history altogether.
In Luke 17, Jesus’ emphasis isn’t on a preemptive escape, but on sudden division at the revealing of the Son of Man. Normal life continues until the moment it doesn’t. That argues against a long, invisible removal and toward a public separation tied directly to judgment.
So from my perspective, Lot supports protection from wrath, not removal from tribulation. The Bible consistently distinguishes between tribulation (which the faithful endure) and wrath (which God pours out). Those aren’t the same thing.
I do appreciate the thoughtful engagement! That kind of pushback actually sharpens the conversation!! Thank you!
I have an opposing view from a higher place. Noah means rest. He entered the Ark (Jesus) and he found Peace after working out his salvation with fear & trembling. The first (1st) mention of ANY lifting UP, being caught Up, taken UP… “raptured’ (not in Bible) to be snatched away from the below to the above way of thinking and believing in in our Genesis. Noah was -NASA- in Hebrew UP ABOVE THE EARTH. 👍
So this is the heritage of the saints. We are the Kings of the East when we are born again with the Son-Sun. When we cry out to Jesus he takes away our sin. How fast? Blink it’s gone. Shout it’s gone. Though your sims are as scarlet in an instant your sin is white as snow. So Noah entered Christ with all his thoughts and he rested from all his work. He was all caught up. He knew.
While everyone who is still confused is waiting for a final answer… we who know the Lord are ALL CAUGHT UP. god says that when we sin we have a way of escape in that very moment of time. In a site and sound theater within the mind. We hear Him we see Him we feel He is there. Jesus Christ is not far away that we need to meet Him half way He is within me. I am not waiting for Him to come, He has come, He has eaten with me, He has taken me to higher ground. The only issue I have to still work out is remaining in His rest until I die my final death.
I can list many many “raptures” of “the harpazo NASA throughout the Bible. Just like the 12 resurrections in the Bible are there for a reason (let us reason together) so we understand that Jesus was not the only one to be lifted up to God. We can be taken away from our presently MIND and caught UP TO GOD AT ANY HOUR OF ANY DAY.
Suffer not a little child to enter the Kings mind… it’s not complicated. A child must know the way. God shows them not us.
Yeah, I hear what you’re getting at, and I actually agree with a big part of the heart behind it, rest in Messiah is now, and being “caught up” with Him in our thinking, desires, and inner life is not something we wait for at the end of history. If we’re born from above, we’re already called to live from that “higher ground” (Eph 2:6, Col 3:1–3) instead of from the chaos around us.
Where I’d push back a bit is on collapsing everything into that inner experience and then reading every “up / lifted / above” passage as a secret code for rapture. Noah’s name really does mean “rest.” And yes, there’s beautiful foreshadowing in him entering the ark and being preserved through judgment. But that’s about trusting and obeying in the midst of judgment, not being mentally airlifted out of it. Same with “nasa” as a Hebrew root—interesting wordplay, sure, but it’s a stretch to hang a whole doctrine on that or to turn every “up” language into a private mystical harpazo.
From my perspective (biblically), there are two things that have to stay together:
•the present reality of being “all caught up” in Messiah—set apart in our minds, walking in His rest, escaping temptation in the moment;
•and the future reality Paul actually describes in 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15—real resurrection, real appearing, real vindication of the righteous in the middle of real tribulation, not just a theater in the mind.
My concern with a purely internal “rapture” is that it can end up flattening the story: no real-costly endurance, no real future hope of resurrection justice, just a mental state. The direction I’m trying to go in with this series is: stop waiting for an escape hatch, and start living as people who already belong to the coming Kingdom—ready to suffer, ready to obey, and ready to stand when the pressure hits, not just to float above it in our thoughts.
That being said, I appreciate your emphasis on rest and present union with Jesus. I just don’t think that replaces the very concrete, very costly path of faithfulness and future resurrection the Scriptures actually lay out. IMO
in conclusion I am not here anymore.. for I am risen. That is what God commands “I know and I trust” Him with my life forever.
I practice this mind set on His higher wisdom morning noon night and it’s my new way of life to die daily. To rise daily. To offer sacrifice daily as a reminder of what He did Is doing and will do for eternity.
What is real in today’s world of fake news? My salvation is very real to me and to me only. I am hidden in Christ and my seeing is believing. I am not waiting anyone like everyone else down here. It’s been real tough to break through this iron dome of thoughts BUT the view is so much clearer from up where I AM RIGHT NOW. I want you to “come up and see” Sergio.
You have come a long way but there is so much more to see and hear brother. Trust Him He will show you much more abundantly. But you have to die to all the earthly wisdom like I did… it’s a trial to get here and you must go through it many times.
I have died
I have been crucified.
I have been buried.
I have been raised.
I have been enrolled in Heaven.
I have been seated on the right hand.
I have been born again and live for God.
Where am I coming from? Way up high above it all with Jesus… so when He comes to everyone else I am with Him. I am His exceedingly great reward (children are gift of God) and He is also mine inheritance for life.
Resurrection of the widow’s son in Zarephath (1 Kgs 17:17–22)
Resurrection of the Shunammite’s son (2 Kgs 4:18–37)
Resurrection of the man thrown into Elisha’s grave (2 Kgs 13:20)
Resurrection of Jairus’ daughter (Mark 5:41)
Resurrection of the young man at Nain (Luke 7:14)
Resurrection of Lazarus (John 11:38–44)
Resurrection of unknown saints during the crucifixion (Matt 27:52–53)
Resurrection of Christ (Matt 28:1-6)
Resurrection of Tabitha/Dorcas (Acts 9:36–42)
Resurrection of Eutychus (Acts 20:7–12)
Resurrection of the Church (i.e., Rapture, 1 Thess 4:13-18; 1 Cor 15:23)
Resurrection of the Two Witnesses (Rev 11:7–11)
Resurrection of OT Saints and Martyrs (Revelation 20:4)
Resurrection of the Wicked (Revelation 20:5)
Future resurrection”
But the eyes of the wicked will fail, and escape will elude them; they will hope for their last breath.”
No temptation has “overtaken’ you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide “a way of escape” out so that you can endure it.
if all this is so, then the Lord knows how to “rescue the godly” from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.
And lead us not into temptation, but “deliver us” from the evil one.’
WE HAVE BEEN SIGNED Aleph
WE HAVE BEEN SEALED Tav
WE HAVE BEEN DELIVERED Saved
I AM YOURS & YOU ARE MINE
When Jesus is your first AND last thought every day and hour HE HAS COME ALREADY. HE IS WITH YOU.. HIS REWARD.
God showed me that the 7 of Tribulation happens daily. Every single day can be a trial for many people. We work an 8 hour day but we get a 1 hour lunch break, so we work 3.5 hours in the morning and 3.5 hours in the afternoon for a total of 7 hours a day. Do you see what God is saying about the daily sacrifice? Worship is every morning every day breakfast lunch dinner. The “assembly” that HAS BEEN CAUGHT UP TO GOD know that it’s seven days a week not one day we worship Jesus. We lift HIM UP EVERY MORNING like the sunrise in our hearts. This is true worship… with His Spirit and His truth. Why wait any longer? Today is the day of salvation. Now is the appointed time…. IF you hear O Israel.. My people My assembly My thoughts that HAVE BEEN ENROLLED IN HEAVEN AND ARE WAITING FROM UP THERE NOT DOWN HERE.
WHEN YOU READ REVELATION ALL… ALL JUDGMENT IS COMING UPIN ‘those that dwell on the things of the earth… those that are still inhabitants of the earth below… There is NO MORE JUDGMENT FOR THOSE THAT HAVE DIED AND HAVE BEEN ALL CAUGH UP AND ARE SEATED IN HEAVENLY PLACES. THIS IS THE INHERITANCE WE GET WHEN WE DIE THEN LIVE AGAIN.
This is going all the way with God… every single day and hour…not making g a deal with Satan half way through each day.
Salvation starts internally. You can’t see it from the outside but you KNOW it from the inside. You CHANGE YOUR MIND. YOUR THOUGHT LIFE IS “BRAND’ New. We are a brand snatched from the fire 🔥… sometime daily. We die DAILY. WE TAKE UP our thoughts to Him daily.. when we die to our fleshly way of reasoning. God says “LET US’ reason TOGETHER AS ONE.
Yes I agree the “church” below has caught many in a trap. It’s the same with “replace” theology. Both sides are wrong.
Israel means the Tribes of God and the Church means Assemblies of God. They are both our old and new thoughts within.
What I would like you to consider is not thinking about the “below’ the “earth” but rather only think with your Spirit from above. We test the spirits for a “reason’ so we are aligned with His mind… not our mind. Remember that God wants our mind to be Hid mind… Let that mind be IN YOU that’s in Jesus Christ. So the resurrection can happen any moment any hour any day for someone who HAS DIED TO THE WORLD… Hence they are dead to sin the word the earth and raised back up in a new way of mind while still here below. There is a first death AND there is a second death. When we die to self we live again. Noah was thinking about one thing BEFORE HE WENT UP… He was thinking about how to build this coffin of wood for him and all us thoughts to die in. God sent all his creatures into the Ark signed and sealed them… then they were ALL DELIVERED UP TO GOD. When it was all over only the 4 made it to dry ground and landed on top of a mountain of God.
Psalm 125:1 says those that trust in the Lord shall be mounted UP LIKE ZION… they will never be moved and they will remain forever there in that higher place of safety above all the issues of the earth below. Noah escaped the wrath of God… and we can too as quickly as it says in Revelation… Jesus can come quickly when the world around you is in a raging chaos or burning you all over. He snatches us from the fire like He snatched Noah from the flood. This IS THE BAPTISM OF WATER & FiRE WE ALL MUST GO THROUGH. TO ENTER HIS MIND OF PEACE & REST.
Thku brother, an excellent piece, full of hope and rejoicing. “Come Lord Jesus!”
Thank you for this stack Sergio! This has given me something new to consider. You've hit all the points and makes a compelling case. Valid, in light of scripture itself. This is why it's so crucial to look at the original scripture. Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek. But in thinkg about this, I do have a question. If this is really a transformation vs a snatching up / away, what about our position during the tribulation period? I've always held the belief in the "rapture" of the church body during the 3.5 yr (during/ mid) the tribulation. Whenever the transformation happens where are we during this if we are changed in an instant? Or am I asking the wrong question?
Great question and honestly, it’s the one that cracks this whole thing open.
Scripture never splits “transformation” from “tribulation.”
Paul ties our change directly to Yeshua showing up, not some secret getaway beforehand. One return. One resurrection. One instant transformation.
And that “snatching” language?
It’s not escape. It’s welcoming the King as He arrives, like running out to meet Him and then coming right back with Him.
So where are we during the tribulation?
Right here, protected, strengthened, and carried through it like every believer before us.
Noah wasn’t removed from the flood.
Israel wasn’t removed from Egypt.
Daniel wasn’t removed from Babylon.
Same pattern, every time.
Our transformation doesn’t beam us away it equips us to stand with Him as He steps in and sets everything right! Hope that helps??
Have you read this Sergio?
https://open.substack.com/pub/wisewolfmedia/p/nigerian-christians-need-help?r=1plzmu&utm_medium=ios
Jesus did say, will I find faith in the earth when I return? I think many will turn away for we here have been pampered far too long. Thank you for your comment.
I just clicked on it and gave it a brief run-through, and I love the message. It’s hard but needs to be taken seriously, but I'll take the time to read it thoroughly. I'm going to add it to my must-read list, and I do believe we're at a stage where the church is going to get stressed. However, what I'm not quite sure how to process is, what the real church is and how many people will easily opt out to avoid persecution. We all need to be awake, my friend.
Here is something I have always wondered about, when it says that He is coming for the living and the dead, doesn't that mean that the dead are just milling around waiting for His return? Wouldn't that mean that the only people in Heaven now would be the people that died before Christ was crucified? So, when we go to a funeral and the pastor says, "So and so is with the Father in Heaven now." Is that really true? I brought this up to a pastor once and he was appalled that I would say that. What do you think?
Yeah, give me a tough one mark lol! This is a huge subject on its own, but here are the basics in plain language:
•When Scripture says He will judge “the living and the dead,” it’s not describing where the dead are—just that He will judge everyone, whether alive at His return or already gone.
•The Bible almost always refers to the dead as “asleep.” Not wandering, not conscious, not already in Heaven. Asleep — held and waiting for resurrection.
•The consistent biblical hope is resurrection, not an instant trip to Heaven at death. Immortality is always tied to His return, not the funeral.
•That familiar line, “They’re with the Father now,” is comforting tradition, but it isn’t what Scripture actually teaches. According to the text, the dead wait for the Day when they’re raised.
Bottom line Mark… they’re not milling around and they’re not in Heaven yet. They’re simply asleep in God’s care, waiting for resurrection — the moment everything actually happens.
👏
Hi. Thank you for this very much 'down to earth' exegesis. It makes a lot of sense. Basically, the double Second Coming of our Lord has always seemed to me a little strained. Too many explanations are needed. However, we will only know when we know really. I have a question regarding Matthew 22:29-33 and how it would actually work out within your 'rapture/greeting the Lord' scenario: 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. 31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” 33 And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching. Especially verse 30. How would we switch from living as males and females to living 'like angels' on earth? Just covering all bases. Thanks again.
Thank you for such a thoughtful question, truly! Hope this helps, in Matthew 22 Jesus is talking specifically about the resurrection life, not our present human experience. His point is that in the resurrection people no longer marry, just as angels do not marry. He is not saying we lose our humanity or the way God made us.
Paul explains the same thing in 1 Corinthians 15. At the Lord’s appearing the dead are raised and the living are transformed, but into glorified human bodies, not angelic ones. We remain who we are, just renewed and made incorruptible. The only thing that changes in that sense is marriage, not our identity.
I hope that gives a clearer picture. :)
Thanks for getting back to me so soon. 1 Corinthians 15 explains the process of transformation of the natural into the spiritual (something which occurs throughout the Bible and contradicts much of popular spirituality where people somehow would attempt to eliminate the natural - the seed - and go directly to the spiritual). Paul's explanation, as I see it, points to Christ Jesus as the only precedent of this transformation (the First Fruits) but his description of the transformation in those who are clothed in spirituality while alive at the time of His coming appears to be a resurrection without death. I understand that those alive at Jesus' second coming will not need to die a natural death, while those dead in Christ Messiah will come back to life. Which understand to mean that only His death was necessary for our salvation. Is it possible that the body of the resurrected ones will be alike in nature to the body of Christ Jesus after His resurrection, when even those who'd known Him could barely recognise Him? I imagine that Jesus coming back in power and glory will enable that transformation to take place here on earth, the same transformation the disciples and Israel experienced working in the miracles He performed during His first coming. Is that how you see it?
Thank you for this, brother. You’re reading 1 Corinthians 15 in the right direction.
Paul really is showing two things at once:
1. the resurrection of those who have died, and
2. the instantaneous transformation of those still alive at His coming.
As you said, that second group experiences a resurrection-type change without passing through death, which is exactly what Paul means by “we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.”
And yes, Christ is the pattern. He is the “firstfruits,” so whatever His resurrected body was like is the model for ours: physical, glorified, recognizable yet transformed, able to eat, speak, be touched, and yet no longer bound by mortality. His closest friends recognized Him, but often only after a moment — which tells us the transformation is real, not symbolic, yet still continuous with who we are.
So to your question: I do see it the way you’re describing. When He appears in glory, that same power that raised Him will clothe the living in immortality on the spot, just as it raises the dead. Paul ties both groups together in one great moment at the Lord’s appearing, and Jesus’ own resurrected life is the pattern for what we will be.
Beautiful question btw.
Thank you again. Somehow, it's all very clear. Sorry, I have 1 more question: how about Lazarus?
Love it. You're keeping me on my game!
Lazarus was raised, but not resurrected in the 1 Corinthians 15 sense. He came back to normal mortal life, which means:
he still aged,
he still had a natural body,
and he eventually died again.
His raising was a sign of Jesus’ authority over death, not the final transformation Paul describes.
Resurrection, in the New Testament sense, is different. It means:
an immortal, glorified body,
incapable of dying again,
patterned after Jesus’ own resurrected life.
So Lazarus was restored to life, but he was not given the resurrection body that only comes at the appearing of Christ. That’s why Paul calls Jesus “the firstfruits” His resurrection is the first of that kind of life.
Lazarus is a miracle of mercy.
Jesus is the model of what we will be.
Hope that helps.
I appreciate you taking the time to answer all my questions. Thank you!
I thought I only had 1 question more for you. I was wrong, here are some more:
John 21:23
Therefore this saying went out among the brothers, that this disciple does not die. But Jesus had not said to him that he does not die, but, "If I desire him to remain until I come, what is it to you?"
What does this all mean in the context of the rapture and resurrection? What does it tell us about John as opposed to the other apostles?
Thank you for this post. It is intriguing. The notion of being left behind as being a blessing and how it has been inverted by church tradition is fascinating and gives me much to think about and consider.
I’m curious — asking from a spirit of genuine inquiry, curiosity and desire to learn — in the “the church is removed” model of the rapture, 2 Thessalonians 2 discusses the man of lawlessness, and how he is currently restrained until “he is out of the way”
I’ve heard this explained as the restrainer being the Holy Spirit who, when the church is raptured (removed from the earth), the Spirit will also depart. I see some problems with that, but I’m curious how you understand this chapter, in context of what you have described in this article?
Thanks in advance for discussing and sharing your thoughts
Thank you for such a thoughtful question!
The “restrainer” in 2 Thessalonians 2 is one of the most debated pieces of Paul’s writings, but I don’t think Paul is pointing to the Holy Spirit or the removal of the church. That idea only appears in modern rapture theology, not in the text itself.
A few quick anchors:
1. The Spirit cannot be “taken out of the way.”
David’s prayer in Psalm 139 still stands, and Pentecost permanently rooted the Spirit in the life of the world. If the Spirit were removed, no one could repent, believe, or even call on God. Even the tribulation saints in pre-trib systems contradict this idea.
2. Paul uses language already familiar to his Jewish audience.
The idea of a “restrainer” shows up in Daniel — a heavenly figure holding back a season of lawlessness until its appointed time. In that context, the restrainer is not the people of God being removed but God’s sovereign timing holding evil in check until the moment He allows it.
3. Nothing in the chapter suggests the church leaves the world before the rebellion.
In fact, Paul warns believers that they must not be “shaken” by claims that the Day of the Lord has already arrived. Why? Because certain events — the rebellion and the revealing of the man of lawlessness — must happen first. That only makes sense if the church is here to witness them.
4. The plain reading is this:
The restrainer is God’s own delaying hand. When He removes the restraint, the man of lawlessness is revealed, and then the Lord destroys him at His coming. No disappearance of believers is required in the text.
So in the framework I laid out in the article, 2 Thessalonians 2 actually reinforces the pattern: believers endure a season of shaking, yet they are not abandoned in it. They are protected, preserved, and ultimately vindicated when the Lord appears.
Hope that helps :)
Thanks. I appreciate the engagement and response back. I think this construct makes sense and jives with the plain reading of the passage.
Good comments. Keep the content coming!
Have to say that the Holy Spirit could be taken out of the way and people could still repent, believe, and call on God—just as they did before Christ came. The Holy Spirit is recorded as resting upon only a few of the faithful OT believers, and there is no indication of His presence within or upon the disciples of Jesus until Pentecost.
Kay, the way I approach this is by looking at how Scripture frames the Spirit. In Hebrew, Ruach HaKodesh isn’t a presence that comes and goes. It’s God’s own consciousness moving in the world, His breath, His awareness, His life-giving activity. That same ruach empowered repentance and faith long before Pentecost.
That’s why Jeremiah 31:33 matters here. In the new covenant promise, God doesn’t pull back. He does the opposite. He puts His Torah within His people and writes it on their hearts. That’s an intensification of His presence, not a withdrawal.
So when Paul mentions a “restrainer” in 2 Thessalonians 2, I don’t see him describing the Spirit leaving the world. The ruach is the very reason anyone turns toward God in any age. Paul seems to be saying something much simpler: God holds back the unveiling of the man of lawlessness until the appointed moment, and then the Lord removes him at His coming.
That’s the lens I’m working from. ( I love the dialogue. I appreciate you. )
If the text means that the Holy Spirit will be removed, it would necessarily mean the removal of the Church. Right now the Holy Spirit in the Church, the body of believers, is holding back the pouring out of evil in the world. I can see this in real time, not as prophecy. We are God’s army, battling on different fronts. If the army is taken away, the Spirit indwelling us will necessarily leave as well. That doesn’t mean He won’t operate in a different way, just not as the One enabling a corporate resistance.
I think we’re tracking together. You’re describing the Spirit’s corporate restraining work through God’s people—not the Spirit actually leaving the world—and that fits the Hebraic picture beautifully. Ruach HaKodesh doesn’t vanish; He shifts how He moves. And honestly, that lines up with how Paul handles the “restrainer” too. He never names it directly, but in the flow of Second Temple thought, the restrainer is God’s own active decision to hold back the rise of the lawless one until the right moment.
It’s not removal, it’s timing. God simply steps aside from restraining so the rebellion can surface. So when you frame it as the unified, Spirit-shaped community being taken “out of the way,” that fits the pattern without implying God withdraws from His creation. I appreciate this back-and-forth, it really does sharpen both of us!!
Revelation 3:10?
Revelation 3:10 is often read through a modern lens, but in the Hebraic context it’s a covenant promise of protection—not removal. The phrase “keep you from” (tēreō ek) means to guard or preserve, the same way God protected His people through trials throughout Scripture. The “hour of testing” fits the prophetic pattern of localized judgment on the Land, not a global escape event. So the promise to the believers in Philadelphia is about God’s covering in a moment of crisis, not a rapture out of the world.
Yeshua used the same construction in John 17:15:
“I do not ask that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one.”
Same idea: protection without removal.
I hope this helps, let me know if I missed your question.
Here’s a warm, respectful, dialectic reply that stays friendly, grounded, and firm without sounding argumentative:
⸻
Kay Anne, thank you for responding with such grace. I genuinely appreciate the tone you brought here.(rare btw)
You’re absolutely right that Revelation was written in Koine Greek. My point wasn’t that the text is Hebrew in language, but that John thinks and writes out of a Hebraic worldview. His symbols, references, and patterns are drawn straight from the Tanakh and the prophetic tradition. So even when the language is Greek, the thought-world underneath it is thoroughly Jewish. That’s all I meant by a “Hebraic perspective.”
As for the rapture timing, I completely hear you. It isn’t a salvation issue, and faithful people land in different places. My goal isn’t to win a position but to stay close to how John’s first-century audience would’ve heard these images. Like you said, we’ll all see how it plays out.
That being said, I truly appreciate you engaging the conversation with kindness. It makes the dialogue worth having.😊
You have to please forgive me. I accidentally hit the wrong button, I was doing this at a stoplight, which is ignorant. Here’s the response I had to your comment. I apologize !!
Original comment:
From Kay Anne on 3:10:
No you perceived the question correctly. However, since the Book of Revelation was written in Koine Greek and not Hebrew, I respectfully disagree with your response. That’s ok though! The Rapture (I am confidently pre trib), is not a matter of salvation, so I guess we’ll find out later (soon) whose eschatology was correct.
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thank you for responding with such grace. I genuinely appreciate the tone you brought here.
You’re absolutely right that Revelation was written in Koine Greek. My point wasn’t that the text is Hebrew in language, but that John thinks and writes out of a Hebraic worldview. His symbols, references, and patterns are drawn straight from the Tanakh and the prophetic tradition. So even when the grammar is Greek, the thought-world underneath it is thoroughly Jewish. That’s all I meant by a “Hebraic perspective.”
As for the rapture timing — I completely hear you. It isn’t a salvation issue, and faithful people land in different places. My goal isn’t to win a position but to stay close to how John’s first-century audience would’ve heard these images. Like you said, we’ll all see how it plays out.
Still, I truly appreciate you engaging the conversation with kindness. It makes the dialogue worth having.
You are most welcome!! I read almost everything you post and value your perspective very much. Press on brother! 🙏
Well, my friend, you are a rare find. I'm very thankful!
I appreciate your time and thoughtfulness on this topic, and agree there is much misunderstanding about eschatology in Christian circles, particularly Protestant traditions. The idea of escaping this earth to strum harps in the clouds seems to me foreign to the witness of scripture, the teaching (much less the experience!) of the historic Church, and in part explains modern western Christian’s lack of a mature theology of suffering.
I think one of the more overlooked patterns for understanding the ‘last days’ is the biblical feast days instituted by God himself and partially fulfilled by Christ (namely Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, Pentecost). These are not mere Jewish traditions, but ‘remembrances’ God intended as a sort of liturgy to help us remember remember remember…and anticipate! Certainly much debate about how to interpret Revelation, but what is undeniable is the Last Trumpet (Rosh Hashanah), The Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), and the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot), and what these ‘shadows’ mean for our future.
Certainly as Christians we are not bound to observe these in the same way as the Israelites, but we benefit most as those who see the substance now (Christ!), and if they were important enough to God to institute and then perfectly fulfill the ‘Spring Feasts’ in Christ’s first coming, we are myopic indeed to think He will not fulfill the ‘Fall Feasts’ sequence in His coming again.
I’m curious if that framework has informed your thoughts on this topic at all?
Exactly
You conflate Christs second coming with the rapture that occurs 7 years before and it sounds plausible, all dressed up in poetry.
Failure to distinguish between the two events leaves out the nation of Israel as Gods focus in the end, as He promised, and the millennial reign of Christ where much of what you say will be fulfilled, but not until the rapture, the tribulation and then the millennial kingdom.
Nice sounding words and Jewish patterns for sure but incorrect timing.
I appreciate where you are coming from, and I understand that the distinction between a rapture before the tribulation and the later appearing of Christ feels essential within that framework. My approach is not about collapsing events for the sake of poetry. It is simply about letting the Scriptures define the timeline rather than the system defining the Scriptures.
When Paul speaks of the return of Messiah, he never separates the gathering of believers from the appearing of the Lord. In 2 Thessalonians 2:1 he speaks of “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him” as one unified moment. He does the same in 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17, where the descent of the Lord, the resurrection, and the catching up of the faithful are presented as a single sequence. There is no mention of a second, earlier event.
Jesus also describes His appearing in Matthew 24. The gathering of the elect follows the visible arrival of the Son of Man. There is no hint of a secret removal taking place years before.
I also take Israel’s role seriously. The prophets do not divide Messiah’s triumph into two events separated by seven years. They tie the resurrection, Israel’s restoration, and the Day of the Lord into one great unveiling. Ezekiel 37, Daniel 12:1–2, and Zechariah 14 all present the same pattern. To split these elements into two distinct comings actually breaks the prophetic rhythm rather than preserving it.
So the timing issue is not about rejecting Israel or ignoring the millennial kingdom. It is simply about following the structure the Scriptures themselves give. If we stay inside the text rather than the later system built around it, the picture becomes far more unified.
If you ever want to walk through these passages together, I am glad to do it.
The dispensational position is derived from scripture, not the other way around.
And no, respectfully decline to debate this complex issue via back and forth texts.
Maybe another time.
And yes, the prophets, when understood in light of the Messiah being rejected first time around, after a literal rendering of their prophecies, and the added hindsight we have since Christ established the church, do divide Messiah’s triumph into separate events. Same as how they, before Christ came had trouble differentiating between two separate comings of Jesus.
And so, many prophecies regarding the nation of Israel that were fulfilled or partially fulfilled or have a dual purpose, will be fulfilled in the 7 year tribulation when the church will be out of the way so to speak.
Totally understand, and I respect your choice not to go back and forth on something this involved. I’ll leave you with one simple point from the text itself.
The New Testament only speaks of two comings of Messiah. His first in humility and His second in glory. It never presents a third event seven years earlier to remove the church before the Day of the Lord. In 2 Thessalonians 2 Paul places believers within the events leading up to the Lord’s appearing, not outside of them.
And with Israel, I agree they are central to God’s plan. I simply see their restoration, the resurrection, and the Lord’s appearing arriving together as the prophets describe.
No pressure to continue. I appreciate the exchange.
Thx but sorry, his second is in glory for sure as well as wrath and judgement against enemies who refuse to bow.
And Gods wrath is not for his bride the church who are removed beforehand.
That from the OT as well as the New.
Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. (Revelation 3:10, NASB)
So yes, nice exchange . Both of convinced the other is wrong.
Not a salvation issue so blessings brother.
Last one :)
When I read the New Testament on its own terms, without any system laid over it, I don’t see Scripture creating the core distinctions that dispensationalism depends on. For example:
1. The Scriptures never divide God’s people into two programs.
Ephesians 2:14–16 and Romans 11 show one new man and one olive tree, not two separate end-time tracks.
2. The Scriptures never divide Messiah’s future work into two separate comings.
Hebrews 9:28 gives one future appearing. Jesus in Matthew 24 and Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 and 2 Thessalonians 2 describe one gathering tied to that appearing.
3. The Scriptures never place the church’s rescue before tribulation events.
Paul explicitly warns the opposite in 2 Thessalonians 2:1–3.
Those are not small points. Those are the pillars the entire dispensational structure rests on. If the text does not teach those distinctions, then the system has to supply them.
And that is why I see the story differently. Not because I reject God’s protection, or Israel’s role, or Messiah’s glory, but because the text itself does not create the separations that dispensationalism requires.
Blessings, brother. (I appreciate the Iron)
We will find out soon I believe. 😉